women/feminism/pregnancy

[justforaminute]

this is not a dig at anyone and im not wanting to start a argument-id like to make this clear.
ive been around a while now-and theres something that disturbs me a bit.....
pregnancy!
i might be wrong but.....pregnancy seems to be a bad thing.
ok-yep-theres all the stuff about choice/sharing responsibility/childcare/the country youre in ect ect ect but...
i have had several children and i feel privaleged to have done so.
this is a privaledge that a fella hasnt got[pregnancy]and some women havent got sadly.
ive enjoyed being pregnant[even in difficult circamstances]and ive embraced it-ive not felt like some kind of"carrying vessell".
ive found it a wonderous experiance to give birth to a little human being and be a mother.
in our fights[as women and as feminists]dont we forget this sometimes?and arent we rubbishing this?and arent we rubbishing all the women of the past who have had childern....a lot in difficult circamstances and a lot who being mothers is been theyre pride and joy?
the mothers that have been proud to be mothers.
or am i alone in this?

Pregnancy is awesome - the creating of a new life, but for some women it really is something to be endured. I was lucky and breezed through it, but if you suffer badly with morning sickness, SPD or some of the other unpleasant side effects you might feel a bit differently, I suppose.

I don't think feminism denigrates motherhood at all. I suppose it might come over like that because it would argue against the traditional view that having children is the only way women can have fulfilled lives.

I feel privileged to have borne my two wondrous children. But it took a lot out of me (is still taking it out of me). I don't feel demeaned by pregnancy or childbirth but I was damaged. And am still being damaged by the lack of sleep or time off that goes with breastfeeding. I feel it is honourable - I wish it were more generally recognised as honourable - but honour goes to lithe quasi youthful women, and I was not attractive as a pregnant woman, lumbering semi-abled about with my carb-bloated body. (I went to a works do this week and someone who had joined when I was pregnant asked who I was, and then came up to me to say "I didn't realise it was you, you look amazing!")

At the childrens centre near me someone has pinned up that gorgeous photo of whatserface who outraged the daily mail by releasing the photo of her lying down breastfeeding. I am torn about it: she is so beautiful, and so is her tiny baby, and it is so nice to see a lovely relaxed new mother lying down breastfeeding (because any bfer who knows how to do it lying down as soon as possible will have a nicer life), and implicitly proud of it by issuing the photos; but I can't help but feel that the general "aaaaaaaaaah" response to it is partly because beautiful women doing anything (even bfing) is more to be admired than average or ugly women. and we can't all be beautiful.

Perhaps I explained myself badly, for which I apologise. I just think that it's nasty to describe transwomen as somehow 'fake' because they were born with a penis. To me it's as bad as judging 'real' women because they were born with a vulva. I'm not presuming to speak for any of the 'real' women on here, ffs.

I didn't realise the term 'cis' was offensive round here, I shan't mention it again.

"The issue here is pregnancy and motherhood. Only women can get pregnant and, even then, not all women. The idea that feminists privilege/ don't privilege women who give birth is offensive and inherently misogynistic. Feminism, as a social/ political theory supports all women: those who can get pregnant, those who cannot without support from the medical establishment, those who can not even with support and those who choose not too. It is divisive and wrong to presume that feminists privilege some women over others."

I don't think that feminists privilege or don't privilege women who don't give birth. But I think society in some ways 'rewards' women who give birth (by congratulating them, fetishising motherhood as a woman's natural state' and punishes them (accusations of hormonal behaviour, non-stop critical commentary of how mothers bring up their children. NB rarely so critical of fathers)

I can see where the idea that feminism is anti-motherhood comes from, because for most of my life I didn't want children and found feminism to be a safe haven because it didn't condem me for not wanting children. Society, with it's polarized views of women, often seems to think that anything that supports women who don't want children must be anti-motherhood. But it's a false dichotomy and one used to keep women down. Now I'm a mother I find feminism a safe haven because it values my work. Sometimes, to my ears, I think some feminists seem to fetishize motherhood - but I think that's more about people talking from different places and wanting different things for their lives than I do, not the movement as a whole.

Overall I found pregnancy to be a bit of a burden - but a worthwhile one both for the children it produced and for the insight it gave me to life with more physical problems. Nevertheless, if there had been a way to have my children gestate in a lab without it being detrimental to them I would probably have gone with that option.

Yes definitely. I shouldn't have made it sound one sided.

And I'm not sure about fetishise either - I think I picked it up in the USA, hence the "z"

I love the way you put that start, about every person having been carried in some woman's womb.

I think the natural state is to be fascinated by pregnancy - most people would be interested and pleasantly curious if there weren't so much baggage about it. I know men who admit they're a bit jealous we get to know that and they don't - and I think there's no shame in saying that, is there?

With people who are unhappy in their bodies - post-surgery or before - I think what is needed is better support and help, to explain that no, this surgery is not a miracle. It cannot give you a womb. I am not saying that, if you are desperate (and I think some people are immeasurably desperate and unhappy in themselves), you won't want surgery: you probably will. A doctor will possibly let you have it. People may well call you a woman (you will still have to face a lot of people who would have been vile to you before and still will be, or even more so). But you will not have a womb and there's nothing can be done about that.

IMO it's very wrong for women to feel that having a womb isn't an integral part of being a woman - for most people, it is!

That's one point ocured to me ... the other one is, as someone with no kids yet, one of the things I love about MN is people give you a realistic view of pregnancy, no the extremes. It makes me realize how patronizing society in general can be about it. There's two extreme views. Pregnancy is either focused on the a 'miracle' baby (and the mother is better if she suffered hugely ... cf. Daily Mail/Trashy Magazine 'Miracle Baby Jenny survives Mum Sarah's Refusal to treat cancer' stuff). Or pregnancy is a liability, ruins your health, you career prospects, and requires you to be treated like an idiot made of spun glass. I honestly didn't realize before I came on here that some women just get through pregnancy normally without their brains falling out of their ears, the myths are so prevalent. It's good to see more realistic views.

I think that being able to have kids is something that I've always taken for granted, and to find out it's not that simple has really made me question who I am as a woman, because I'd always assumed I'd be a mother.

I do so think that, whatever choices women make (or are inflicted on them, that's another discussion entirely) we'll always get it wrong. Have kids? You're too old / young / spongeing off the state / you're doing it all wrong. Don't have kids? You're not normal. Women can't win either way. I'd like to see a society that respects all women's choices, whether that's staying at home to bring up their kids, being a working parent or choosing not to have kids etc, in the way that men's are generally are respected.

Eep - best I'd never have a baby, I don't think I've got enough to spare...