Tracie Andrews released from jail after serving 14 years for killing Lee Harvey

[rainbowtoenails]

I cant do a link to the news reports on this from my phone but I'm sure someone else can do that.

I saw Lee's parents on This Morning today. It is very sad that they have suffered the awful loss of their son and I can see why they feel let down by a justice system where life does not mean life.

But, looking at this case with a feminist gaze I cant help but make comparisons with other intimate partner killings. Mostly committed by men, these other cases Ive heard of rarely end up with a sentence of as long as 14 years. It reminds me of what I read ages ago in Helena Kennedy's 'Eve was Framed' that the justice system is harder on women than men for the same crimes. Im not saying that TA should have been let out sooner but that people of both genders who commit these crimes should be given equally long sentences.

You seem to be a bit fixated on that

on what?

On child murder and paedophilia. That wasn't what the thread was about.

i know-but it got to stastistics and i was looking for stastistics.
when i was looking about i was seeing stuff about women and crimes and i started to think about women and voilent crime.
i agree with what SGM has said about the other things but ive never really thought about women committing more serious crime.
im thinking about things like women gangs aswell.
im not really into stastistics but im interested in discussion.

S0 in 2009, 800 women went to prison for violence vs 13000 men. 41 women went to prison for sexual offences vs 3000 men.

Well, it was the lies and the not guilty plea that made her sentence longer. John Tanner got life and served12 years for the murder of Rachel Maclean . Not very different, also pleaded not guilty, also made up a web of lies,also made a tv appeal.

I think it is the tv appeal/footage that marks some cases out. It can be endlessly shown on tv and after sentencing it is shown with morbid fascination of a murderer lying on tv.

Just like some child murders are more heavily covered (where the child is attractive). I once heard a us commentator say that if you are abducted better hope you are white, and attractive preferably with a recent wedding photo. Media coverage of crime is often very superficial.

It strikes me as strange that feminists always come up with the opposite of reality. Females receive harsher sentences than men. In a recent case in Australia a female decided that since her husband didn't want her anymore she would mutilate him. She poured accelerant over his genitals and set him ablaze. The bed also caught fire. He was severely mutilated and died a month later. Her punishment? Nothing. It was an act of LOVE. Do you think men should go free if they catch their wives cheating and set them ablaze?

I think you know PR that most of which you post is utter tosh, pretty anecdotal, and pretty much unsubstantiated.

I'm not sure how else to comment on your posts, as it would take most of the night and I need to go to bed. But I didn't wish to leave your offerings without comment.

re above the imprisonment stuff, at any one time about 50 women are in prison for 'sex crimes' and most of these are for 'aiding and abetting' a male to commit such crimes. Approx 3,200 men are in prison for sexual offences.

More men than women are in prison full stop, so I don't know why that would be a surprise.

SGM Can you explain what you mean by this?

"It absolutely blows my mind that we arrest the prostitutes but no real punishments exist for those who exploit and harm vulnerable women and children."

No punishments exist? For which crimes do no punishments exist - or is this another one of your 'facts'?

I am still shocked by the 30% increase in custodial sentences over the last 10 years! That is a massive shift. That can't all be down to an increase in crime levels over that time women can it? There must be other factors to explain such a massive leap in such a short space of time e.g. a higher propensity to jail offenders, changes in sentencing guidelines for certain crimes, coutry-wide "pushes" to reduce certain crimes etc?

This murder was fairly local to me and I remember the very extensive coverage on Central News. I definitely think that more was made of the case because of the circumstances - i.e. that Tracie Andrews had claimed it was a "road rage" killing & road rage was a fairly new concept at the time.

I also think that the media coverage more recently of her plastic surgery & new identity has angered people & brought the case back into people's minds. I can't quite believe we've got to the stage where she's due for release but, then again, I am one of those people who swears blind that people's children can't possibly be 10, 12, 18 etc. yet .

Whether Tracie Andrews would have been dealt with/viewed any differently had she been male, I don't know. I do however think that there is a higher "shock" rating surrounding female murderers - as if it's not a very feminine thing to do!

thankyou very much SGM.[link]
yep-i agree with youre 10.34 post.
Emmanumber3[i do however think that there is a higher "shock rating..........]
yes.i agree.unfortunatly i failed miserably trying to explain what ive meant.
as i was looking at things i myself was shocked and i was trying to look at this before i was talked down to.
obviously there is much more men that commit really bad crimes but i was trying to look at the women and ask why.and what do other women[as feminists]think of this.

SGM - yes I did wonder whether poverty was a factor, it was just that the increase was so dramatic. Has there been a similar increase in poverty amongst women or do you think it is more a shift in how it is being treated.

I can see poverty becoming even more of a factor under this government, especially poverty amongst women. So this would then exacerbate these figures even more

emma - I agree the shock factor for women committing crimes (especially violent ones) doesn't help in these cases, certainly.

Forensic Psychology by Adler and Gray

That link should show most of a chapter on women in prison.

But is still very rare for women to commit violent crimes. The stats show that most women are locked up for theft and drug offences. Poverty must surely have an influence on that.