women over 18 being referred to as girls

[rainbowtoenails]

I know it's not as important a feminist issue as violence or the pay gap but i think it contributes to adult women not being taken seriously.

I'm going to get told to lighten up, amnt i?

I agree. I won't use the word 'girls' to describe people over 16 if I can help it. 'The girl from accounts' is just tooth crunching.

Although having said that, I've heard my sister (aged 30) refer to 'the boy in our office' to refer to anyone her age or less. Does seem to have negative connotations, though.

"Ladies" came into play when the term ''Gentlewoman" started to mean "prostitute." If you read "Roxana" by Daniel Defoe, as a little girl the protagonist causes great hilarity by telling her carers that when she grows up she wants to be a 'gentlewoman' because they don't have to milk cows. They all laugh because of course she's mistakenly saying "I want to be a prostitute." ... so the word 'gentlewoman' had been corrupted by the early eighteenth century.

I mean, why "ladies and gentlemen"? It OUGHT to be 'Ladies and Lords" by equivalence of title. But "woman'' and even 'gentlewoman" (eg respectable upper middle class woman) became synonymous with 'whore.'

Sad, really. the old dictum that a respectable woman was never talked about actualized in the very word. If someone called you a 'woman' it was an insult.

Totally worth reclaiming.

What about guys? Can you call a group of women 'guys'?

Girl is fine, old girl is not (42 isn't even middle aged )

Sorry I also much prefer lady to woman.

To say the woman in the office rather than the lady in the office feels rude.
(I'd certainly refer to that woman in the bank and everyone round here would know the one I ment)

I refer to groups of women as "the girls". But then I also refer to groups of men as "the boys".

I think it's only an issue if people use "girls" but wouldn't use "boys" in the same context. Which, unfortunately, is the case for a lot of people.

I'm trying to bring up my DD saying 'woman' and not 'lady'. Ie, 'mind that woman in front of you dd', or 'tell the nice woman what your name is' or 'what's that woman doing over there' etc etc.

Sometimes I have to steel myself to do it after a lifetime of 'lady' being the polite form and 'woman' usually being used in the context of 'the other woman' 'that bloody woman' etc etc - derrogatory.

But DD has picked it up and it is coming naturally to her, and there are ripple effects among my family for using woman more than lady. I told her we only use 'lady' if the female in question has a title.

As you can imagine, some family members have a wry smile at my efforts, but I do want to reclaim the word. It's a great word, it's how I describe myself.

I agree that context is all.

One peeve of mine is when men's sport is referred to without the "men's" whereas the female version is referred to with its "women's" (woman as other). As an example - "cricket" for the male game and "women's cricket" for the female game.

As long as I'm not 'old girl' I don't mind.

Winetta, I agree, and it's the same with things like 'woman police officer' when in the context it doesn't really matter what gender the police officer is. A slightly irrational particular pet peeve of mine is that in several of JG Ballard's books his narrator refers to his partner's 'women friends'. It always sounds quite derogatory to me and I don't think his narrators refer to their own friends as 'men friends'. Mind you, I think Ballard was a crusty old misogynist anyway ...

I dislike it intensely, but wouldn't object to it in certain specific contexts (eg some of the examples given in this thread).

But it so easily tips into demeaning, so I think it's important to use the unmarked terms "women" and "men" as the norm. Especially in any "public" setting.

it doesn't bother me but in the interests of equality i do also call men boys. all the time.

i would hate to be called a girl in a work context or a patronising manor, but i don't mind it socially - i go on girls mountain bike weekends or girls coaching sessions (even though i'm 34) but as i say i use the word boys in the same way so i don't see it as a gender inequality thing.

Good points, girls!

Fluffles, I do that too! And if anyone (usually male!) used to call women's sport "ladies" this or that then I instantly referred to the male version as "gentlemen's" this or that. Sounds a bit silly that way!