The Myths About Women Who "Cry Rape"

[DontCallMePeanut]

From The Telegraph

Sorry, my head's not in the right place to provide any critique of this at the moment, but thought this would interest the members of the feminist section. Will attempt to comment when I have a clearer head.

Further my experience when I finally left XP wasn't so much lack of belief as "not wanting to take sides".

I experienced very much the same thing when I left mine. But I think this can be applied to rape too.

Stranger rape, which is statistically rare, is treated with near universal condemnation and people do generally believe the victim. That's not the case with most rapes, which usually involve people who know each other or who at the very least spent some time in friendly chat before the rape took place (e.g. date rape).

Rapes do not take place in a vacuum. People know both victim and rapist, and often they know both and mix with both. It makes things too uncomfortable for people and they don't want to take sides. Far easier to minimalise it and make the victim partly responsible (she was drunk) etc. "They're both responsible" removes blame and allows people to carry on their own lives without taking sides and making a stand. Most of this is done subconsciously of course. It ends up making rape condoned even if people say they don't agree with it, much the same as DV. Actions are not mirroring words.

The trouble is, if you have this prevailing attitude in society, it is undoubtedly going to be reflected in the legal system. The only way to get the legal system changed, where women's characters and sexual history are not held up for such detailed scrutiny in a way that just doesn't happen with other crimes, is to make rape socially unacceptable full stop. That means people have to stand up and be counted and condemn rape, under all circumstances, with no excuses and however uncomfortable it makes us feel.

Actually, here's a story of burglary from when I was younger. My sister bought 2 pairs of very expensive jeans. After they were washed, they hung out on the line to dry. When they were collected, they were gone. The police were called. They looked at the garden and saw that it was quite open for anyone to walk into without any great effory and said that it was, "asking for them to be stolen," buy hanging them out in such an easy to steal place. So they do do that.

And Lie Detectors are banned because they don't actually detect whether you are lying. They detect whether you are nervous, which most people get when they are lying. And on trial in a court of law, most would be nervous.

But I do agree that they should spend more time tooking into any allegations. Of course there will not be any evidence if nobody looks into it.

Sunshineandbooks, when i left my x, his mother wouldn't believe (even though she had seen bruises on my face) that her son had been abusive to me. I was a liar. she still believes that..

I think other people even friends and relatives thought I was being 'dramatic', or exaggerating a bit.

Bandwithering I'm sorry you had to go through that too.

I think that's exactly what I mean. Your X's mother didn't want to believe her son guilty of that. To believe it is too uncomfortable because it raises all sorts of questions about her own relationship and the way her son was brought up. Nor does she want to condemn her child. It's far easier to say you're exaggerating or making it up. That doesn't rock her world.

Back to the OP.

This forum seems to have only one way of dealing with rape allegations.

Has a female alleged rape? Lock the male up he must have done it.

No woman ever lied about rape therefore why have a day in court?

If a day in court must be had due to the bleeding heart liberal society, then don't try and prove the accuser might be a liar as women do not lie about rape.

Before you all go ranting about rape apologists, I accept rape happens a lot, and I accept a lot of it goes unreported.

I do not accept a woman who cries rape is a myth. It is a rarity. It does happen.

"This forum seems... xyz"

Prove it. Back up your lies.

You won't be able to. Nobody says women never lie about rape or that men should be considered guilty before charged. YOu won't find one post that says that on this section, unless it's by some loon alleging that that's what regulars on this forum say.

Men have far more of a reason to lie about rape. So why are the very small percentage of women who lie about rape even under scrutiny when many more men lie about whether they raped a woman.

Oh, Hodge, you should take the time to read what's being said. Nobody has said anything about all rape allegations being true (accept for a quote of a police officer), but it is agreed that it is a rarity. What is being said is that even though it could be as high as 3% from what I've managed to research - athough "no crime" doesn't mean it was a lie. I'd be inclined to agree with the 1% are false, the rest are genuine.

The problem, and this is what this thread is saying, is that a disproportionate amount of woman making an allegation are met with far too much suspician, and we have also discussed the obsurdity of "she was asking for it", and obviously that the conviction rate is far to low, and it is being discussed to find a method of increasing this without compromising human rights.

The only answer that has been agreed above involves police spending more time analysing the allegation and looking for more evidence. This is a far cry from your analysis of the this thread.

The myth is not that it exists at all, the myth is in the over estimation of truthful/lying, and in the underestimation of what actually constitutes a crime.

You know, it's a shame we can't hide individual posters...

People who have been accused of something have more of a reason to lie than people who are accusing someone...

I hate using analogies, but this will illustrate my point somewhat.
A vase has been broken, and a five year old is accused. They'll either say "I didn't do it!", blame it on a sibling or apologise.

Lets say said vase hasn't been broken. A 5 year old wouldn't then come up to you and say their sibling broke it.

Likewise with rape. It's a very small percentage of people who lie about being the victim of rape. Please stop trying to blow that number out of proportion.

Well, that report I linked to says that 8% of people believe a women is partially or wholly responsible for being being raped if she has had "many sexual partners".

Personally, I don't think it matters if you've had 1, 10 or 100 partners, if it was rape, it was rape.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat, in a court when the defendant has claimed it is consensual, both parties will be under scrutiny, so the jury can best decide who is telling the truth. Hopefully they are aware that it is the accused who is most likely to be lying, but are instructed to convict if guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt, not based on the notion that most rape accusations are genuine, therefore he probably done it.

If anyone saw Eastenders last night, they will have seen Ronnie being tried for kidnapping a baby. And her sister's naive fury at the prosecution painting her in the worst light possible. Although the comparison (and the TV portrayal of court proceedings) might be poor, that's how the courts work - sadly in a rape case the 'character assassination' is part of the best defence the defendant is entitled to - and I'd like to hear of any cases (from the last few decades) where a prosecutor did try and say the victim was in any way culpable because of the way she was dressed, it seems unlikely but I might be naive. Prosecutors try any old rubbish sometimes (in non-rape cases), and the hope is the jury isn't convinced. I don't see another way without changing the entire legal system.

"Well, that report I linked to says that 8% of people believe a women is partially or wholly responsible for being being raped if she has had "many sexual partners".

So 92% disagree with that cobblers. Good.

That's true, but I was shocked to see it was that high.

Maybe I'm a bit naive.

TAB, for some reason, these things no longer shock me. They just make me angry, instead.

Anything above 0% believing the victim is ever responsible is too high.

Yes it's amazing anyone would think that. I can only guess it's perhaps very old, very conservative, or very religious, or out of touch people. What are the ways you can get disallowed from being on a jury? Is it like America if you say you are racist, etc? Then perhaps on a rape trial, I would be fine with people who agree with that statement to be considered unfit to be on a jury.

"Hopefully they are aware that it is the accused who is most likely to be lying"
MarySue - we aren't even in a court of law here and you (and others) are missing that point already.

' I accept rape happens a lot, and I accept a lot of it goes unreported.

I do not accept a woman who cries rape is a myth. It is a rarity. It does happen'

Um, yes. We're all on the same page. What's your point?

I'm missing the point I stated?

Was that addressed to me, MarySue?

I quoted MissHodge.

Sockfail

"Was that addressed to me, MarySue?"

No, to HanddivedScallopsrgreat, who said I missed the point.