Starting to wish we had old fashioned me (mum) stay at home, he (dad) go out to work set up :(

[joric]

that's it really and I never thought I'd say it but both me and DH work full time- love my job- I probably do 60/40 childcare stuff he does shopping, some washing, I clean and sort out bills etc....we ate both a bit knackered and things get half done. I am starting to think my grandparents lifestyle was a better arrangement- him to work her at home doing everything to do with the home whilst he is at work and children are at school. They had a very organised lifestyle and evenings were relaxed and free. They would eat together, see family etc as all the chores had been done in the day and his work was done for
the day.
Thoughts please :)

[EightiesChick]

Bonsoir - actually, I don't think that asking you to explain a brief assertion that you initially made, and give some evidence for it, is particularly demanding. Neither do I have to research your argument, which you made, for you. If you want to argue that state supported childcare is wrong, by all means do so - but, as I have pointed out, you didn't actually do more than make the assertion itself in your post. You also seem extraordinarily reluctant to post even the briefest of details to support your case - how do I know that you have done your research to back up your point?

If these things are not quick and easy to summarise, perhaps posting several lines that say something is 'wrong', with no discussion or evidence, is somewhat misleading of you.


Will be back to the thread later and will read with interest then

[SybilBeddows]

I think it helps if you have a lot of money and can buy status. Seriously. This is not a comment on any particular person, but I think it's what underlies a lot of the yummy mummy consumerism. Quite simply, if you look posh and rich you get treated with more respect. Sometimes if I am feeling downtrodden I go into a nice shop or restaurant and it's not just the niceness of the food or the things I buy that cheers me up, it's the fact that the people in there are talking to me like people used to talk to me when I was a university lecturer. Shallow, but real.
money is also great for enabling you to buy your way out of the chores you hate and buy time away from the kids and hence headspace; seriously, I think the life of the well-off SAHM is easier to reconcile for some very practical reasons.

[Bonsoir]

Gosh you are lazy, and rude too!

[loiner45]

I'm almost at the end of my childcare years :-) youngest now 17 - but I would say, based on my experience (mixture over the years of SAHM, p/t work, f/t work, now working from home) try to always be in a position where you could, if you had to, feed, clothe and house yourself and DCs independently of a partner. This might mean upskilling, getting qualifications while you are a SAHM (I did a career change degree) or having a qualification that you can fall back on - e.g. if you have a teaching qualification you can always do supply teaching - agency work with other professions.

This should enable you to feel more secure in being a SAHM if that's what you choose to do. I think its fine to take a decision with a partner that one will do the bulk of the home stuff - but as people here have pointed out, the grass might be greener on the other side, doesn't mean it will taste good :-)

[EightiesChick]

Bonsoir - me? where have I been rude?

[Bonsoir]

And disingenous with it .

[howabout]

I think the state funding childcare is only equitable and giving a real choice if SAHP are paid by the state for providing their own childcare. Otherwise there is a transfer of tax income from families with a SAHP to families with 2 wage earners.
I am also uncomfortable with hiring domestic staff / nannies as if these jobs were beneath me but not someone else and ceratinly do not think I should be subsidised to have servants.

[pickledsiblings]

So that's a yes then Bonsoir. I just think it might be useful for posters to know this so they can fully appreciate your opinion.

[Bonsoir]

What do you mean? I don't understand you.

[Macaroona]

Marking place, interesting thread.

I am in a demanding job, and am definitely suffering 'burnout'. I'm sick of the politics of my current workplace, and rather than looking around for somewhere new, I'm looking forward to being a SAHM, for the first few years anyway.

I hope not to feel my status has diminished - I've proved myself in the world of work, and it feels like starting a new and exciting project. Maybe I'm being naive, but I really don't expect full time motherhood to be any less challenging than working full time - just different demands. My job rewards me and gets me down, so will motherhood!

[MarshaBrady]

I don't feel my status in society, or even with my friends, changes at all whether I work or not.

I do some work for other reasons and then have long breaks, but I don't want to be beholden to any defined role. My mood is most elevated when I have the freedom to do some and then not.

[ProfYaffle]

I don't feel being a sahm has diminished my status (maybe I just didn't have any to start with!) but I've got lots of interests outside of the mummy sphere, am involved in a community project and will start volunteering at the cab in September when my youngest starts school.

[Fizzylemonade]

I am a SAHM, it happened by accident when we moved with DH's job, he earns significantly more than me. So I gave up my job for the move and just never sought work.

DH's Mum was a SAHM, my Mum worked full time.

I enjoy the pottering side to it, and I am anal organised so I am "in charge of" uniform purchase, boxing up clothes that are too small and putting it in the loft for youngest ds, I make bread, I grow veg and I have a circle of friends, who are a mix of SAHM, F/T and P/T workers.

The only bit that drives me insane is laundry, so I either listen to music/radio or watch a film/tv whilst I do it.

Weekends are mostly free from housework because it has been done in the week and DH is 100% supportive and appreciates what I do. I recently had a frozen shoulder so could not even dress myself, he had to do his job (IT) and do the school run, cook food, shop and do housework.

I think the major things to consider are isolation, which I initially had due to the move, financial costs, and the monotony of housework, it never changes.

I'm a "when life gives you lemons, make lemonade" type of person but I can see how for others this would be the dullest job ever. I am lucky that DH loves his job and appreciates what I do.

[Fennel]

Going right back to the OP, I would suggest trying out possibilities for part time work. For both you and DH, ideally (given that this thread is in Feminism), or for one of you. That still leaves the option of giving up work totally if that doesn't work out.

I totally agree that status and worth should not be linked to paid work (though for me they are, in my sector that's normal, noone in academia can separate work and personal goals very well). But from a feminist perspective, I do think that someone giving up paid work shoudl be careful not to get caught up in feeling they don't deserve as much as the working partner, if it leads to that dynamic in a relationship then I think that is a problem for a feminist. Not being a SAHP per se, but if one gets stuck feeling that their time and interests are less worthwhile than the working, earning partner (and lots of SAHPs do feel that, not all of course).

And I think that a feminist giving up work does need to know what she and partner will do about pensions and savings, and what will happen if the relationship breaks down, and one has been earning for years and the other not.

and if you have those two things sorted, then go for it if you want to do it. but those are the sort of thing that make many feminists twitchy about the SAHM role. Not devaluing caring at all, but the longer term worries about equality in relationships.

[Bonsoir]

People gain their feelings of status and worth from wildly different things, IME. And that is how it should be. The only danger is when you get the majority of your status from a single thing and that thing is fragile. Work is good example. Best to keep your eggs in many baskets.

[sunshineandbooks]

I think the status of being a SAHM correlates very strongly to socio-economic group. A SAHM mother on benefits or NMW is treated very differently indeed to the SAHM who is the wife of a lawyer or doctor. No matter how strong your own mental fortitude or how much you believe in what your are doing, it takes a pretty strong person not to be affected by social attitudes.

I completely agree with Bonsoir however that it is very unhealthy to define yourself solely as SAHM or employee. A well-balanced person has many interests in life. Unfortunately, those at the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum often do not have the resources (either financially or in terms of opportunity) to broaden their daily lives, which contributes to SAHMs in this group finding it harder to enjoy and revel in their SAHM status.

[Bonsoir]

I think there are also strong socio-cultural (not just socio-economic) contributors to status. If you have knowledge or skills or cultural baggage that are highly valued among your peer group, that clearly adds to your feelings of well-being (quite independent of any career association).

[pickledsiblings]

What constitutes a peer group for a SAHM Bonsoir?

[TryLikingClarity]

I am marking place on this very interesting thread.

I have just become a SAHM with my 17 month old DS, but am looking for pt work.

Very interested reading experiences of other women/ families.

[Bonsoir]

The people of your own generation that live around you and that you have meaningful encounters with in your daily life in all the activities you undertake.

[floyjoy]

A lot of people are unfulfilled in their outside-the-home work life. I hardly know anyone (female or male) who enjoys their job, looks forward to going in and doesn't look forward to annual leave/retirement, etc. A few years ago I would've much preferred to stay at home with my DDs than go into the awful, mind-numbing, pointess job that I had. I got into work more suited to me but I'd like to improve my job situation again. Sometimes it's not about not working, it's just about not working at that.

[EightiesChick]

There are much higher expectations now that work should be fulfilling, whereas it used to be more easily accepted that work was just your means of earning a living.

Bonsoir You have interesting points to make here, but I still don't appreciate you responding to mine not by explaining your assertion but by calling me lazy and rude - when in fact I have not been, and you have been more of either than me But now I can see that this is your style. Feel free to carry on

[moondog]

Well thanks Annie.
I like my work and I like looking after my home and family and I try as best I can to divide my time and energy between the door.

Long ago, someone told my husband (as a boy) 'Whatever job you do, make sure yo do it the best you can'. I like that and he always did that-which is why I married him and tried my best to do the same.