"Fear" of men

[ComradeJing]

I have a question that relates to two recent threads so apologies for thread about a thread.

Allhailtheaubergine (hope you don't mind - it's your thread I'm referring to) said that she was worried when she walked on the beach and when a man came between her and her exit she became nervous.

Another poster in AIBU said she was unhappy about a male nursery worker taking her daughter to the bathroom.

The OP in AIBU was completely torn to bits over this. Allhail was given support and most people (including myself though I didn't post) agreed that they would have felt scared and validated her response.

Now my question is why is one response valid and rational and the other one not? Is it because one is a person in a job and the other could be "anybody?" I would imagine you're more likely to be attacked by someone in a job (ie taxi driver, gas man, builder or someone else you would invite into your home) than just some stranger off the street but I could well be wrong.

I suppose I was thinking that if one is a feminist issue then the other one must be too as they are both about a fear of men and what men can do to women.

The point I was making is that there is a fear of men and male sexuality that is causing some rather odd behaviour from people I would normally think of as sensible, and that is an example, a perfectly decent bloke made to feel like a paedophile because he watched an amusing video. He was witch-hunted for it. Its disgraceful, I have had to support him throughout as his view of himself crumbled, all because of a knee-jerk fear that he was a risk.

I think you are being somewhat blinded by your liking for this bloke TBH.

He had what was probably porn on his computer and an article about anal sex. He got found out, he got sacked. These things happen.

Missing I don't think you should confuse fear of male violence with fear of male sexuality.

The two are not synonmous.

oh bugger spelling

Am turning into Cod

I think the two are inextricably linked, actually, there is a stereotype of man's 'true' nature being working class, violent, facinated by danger, dirty, agressive, bestial etc despite the fact that polite society was largely created by men too. I do think it is terrible that decent, polite, sensible men who are open about their sexuality are equated with the dangerous marginal deviants. In the example I mentioned, it is akin to seeing me reading cosmo or diary of a call girl on the train and being frightened that I would kill or rape you. I do think some women have built up a fear of men that would allow them to think like that. I have read American Psycho but I don't expect people to think I am therefore a psycho, but I have seen nudges and jokes when some men read it.

I do think we have to be honest, that we are terrified of men and see them all as potential madmen. This is dangerous.

Um, you might missing.

Most of us don't actually. We're scared of the ones who show the warning signs that they might tunr into crazies, but even then, most of us are trained from an early age, to ignore our fear and to give the potential madman the benefit of the doubt, because "it's not fair" to tar all men with the same brush just because a minority might hurt us.

missing friend

"In the example I mentioned, it is akin to seeing me reading cosmo or diary of a call girl on the train and being frightened that I would kill or rape you. "

NO it isn't. He had what was probably porn and an article about anal sex on his work computer. He broke the rules. He got sacked.

You obviously like the bloke and it is blinding you to the fact that he broke the rules and he got sacked.

Has it occured to you that the real reason for the witch hunt was probably that his colleagues simply didn't like him? A more likely explanation than them all being stark staring mad I'd have thought.

"I do think we have to be honest, that we are terrified of men and see them all as potential madmen. "

This is patent bollocks. As is the idea that male sexuality and violence are inextricably linked. Why would you even say that? It's an appalling thing to say.

I agree with other posters who say they wouldnt be scared. I am used to walking round at night, often alone in hot pants, mini skirts and even bikini tops before. I have never once felt intimidated or scared tbh.

Also I wouldnt in anyway be scared if a man changed my DDs nappy. I work with children and have accounted this attitude before and think its quite prejudiced tbh. If you are in a decent nursery then there would be no chance to be alone with child long enough to touch them/take pics and in all the nurseries I have worked in the bathroom is accessible so everyone can see what is going on in there.

I dont understand a fear of men at all, and have never had a reason to be scared of men. Men are all different, and I dont feel scare of 50% of the population just because a small minority are not very nice.

It's not that small a minority.

1 in 4 women get sexually assaulted or raped in their life. Sexual offenders are repeat offenders, but it's not all the same tiny group of very busy guys...

Nice to pretend it's the odd bad apple though, it's comforting and reassuring...

I just dont feel scared by it though. Here its normal for girls/women to walk round on their own at night 3/4am, mostly very skimpily dressed. I just live by no point in worrying something could happen, you could get run over by a car but you arent going to stop doing stuff are you? I do agree its more likely to be someone you know tbh.

Agree with madwomans post upthread.

I also think if you were brought up with a dad who wasnt a good man, or had experiences of bad men in childhood then you will grow up and repeat these patterns and it will seem like there are loads of 'bad' men. However if you are brought up with experiences the other way round it will seem like there are hardly any 'bad' men as you never/rarely encounter them ime.

Yes I agree that personal experience is very important in forming attitudes.

HerBex that's very true. Until I ended up in a DV relationship, I had never encountered any sexual harassment or experienced an assault, and I had never come across anything I perceived as sexist or hostile attitude. My own father was a good man, as are most of the men in my (now very small) family. However, once I became a 'victim' my perceptions changed radically.

I got out and I'm not troubled by aggressive men any more, including my XP because I have gone to great lengths to ensure that he cannot abuse me or our DC or even just make a nuisance of himself. However, now that I've got my 'eye' in I am genuinely shocked at the number of men I come across who are either horribly abusive or simply just chauvinistic and controlling. Worse still are the master manipulators whose partners don't even realise what's being done to them (I only recognise it because I know what I am looking for having taken great pains to educate myself enough to not fall into an unequal relationship again in the future).

No, most men are not like this. But an alarmingly large minority are and FWIW I see signs that the current generation of lads in their late teens seem to be worse than my own generation (mid 30s), although the ones that are not are truly lovely.

Well I think that my judgement that my friend is a nice guy is obviously part of the information I am using! What is crazy is that at the same employer there is a gay nazi fetish study group sanctioned by the University, and there is more explicit imagery published on their website than that he is accused of, and there are many theses published with nudity, self-mutilation, sex, fetishes (eg I found one with 'erotic defecation' discussed) etc etc. all the examples there are published by female academics. I do think there is a fear of maleness that is becoming quite stifling I find myself constantly surprised at the 'don't go there', 'don't go in alone', 'make sure the door is open' statements that happen - I feel so disheartened when I see friends of mine, especially the guy mentioned above fell really ashamed about almost anything they do.

BTW a few years ago I went out with a guy who used to work out a lot at home, and I would quite often go round and there would be holes in the wall and there was a permanently cracked window in the kitchen. I talked to my friends who said that he obviously had rage issues. How mortified was I when after lots of paranoid questioning he said 'oh hang on, this is the 'am I a psycho?' set of questions isn't it. Turned out the crack in the window in the kitchen was from a cast iron pan that he kept standing up in the drainer only for it to fall when the washing machine was on, and his work-out technique involved throwing dumbells from one hand to the other whislt dropping to his knees and then standing up - the dents were from when he missed the catch! -- mind you working out when you are a bit drunk is a bit Mel Gibson..

for the record he was embarrassed about the AS article - I know why he was reading it though - he had just hooked up with a new GF - I bet they were going to try it that night and he was just checking up (bless...)

oh and also it was only the one article - and he read it for less than 3 mins.

Painting is here: www.neilmoore.co.uk/new_paintings_4.html called Astride.

Has he instructed a lawyer?

sorry astride

He had no money, sadly, he was not paid very much A friend of mine has offered to lend some money so we are hoping.