Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Magdalene laundries

63 replies

hogsback · 08/06/2011 16:24

UNCAT (UN Committee Against Torture) has released a damning statement on the Irish government's investigation (or complete lack thereof) the laundries.

More information here.

Quote:

"Mary Norris ended up in a Magdalene laundry for disobeying an order. A teenage servant in Kerry, she took a forbidden night off, and was taken away to a convent where the nuns had her examined to see was she still a virgin (which she was). From there she was dispatched to the Magdalene laundry in Cork. Immediately on arrival, the nuns changed her name ? standard practice in all the Magdalene laundries. "When I went in there," recalls Mary, "my dignity, who I was, my name, everything was taken. I was a nonentity, nothing, nobody."

Angry
OP posts:
ninah · 08/06/2011 19:16

stealthpicasso, apologies

TheFeministsWife · 08/06/2011 19:31

TheCrackFox
They changed her name?

The Catholic Church (I was brought up a Catholic) actively hates women and is one of the biggest reasons that I am a Feminist.

Me too! Shock

BooyHoo · 08/06/2011 19:34

ninah, do you have a link to that vid? tehre seem to be quite a few on YT.

scarlettsmummy2 · 08/06/2011 19:38

I have also seen the "magdalene sisters' film. I think I cried from start to finish, but what shocked me the most is that the last laundry was only closed in 1996. Shocking.

DontCallMePeanut · 08/06/2011 19:48

Scarlettsmummy, I hsd the exact same reaction to the film. I'm sensitive as it is, but that shocked me to the core. To then hear it was "mild" compared to what people went through is absolutely heartbreaking.

Suncottage · 08/06/2011 20:07

I have posted that my mother was a 'Magdalene' girl and believe me the orphanages were not confined to Ireland.

My mother came out traumatised and when she had children of her own she had no idea how to be a 'mother'.

She is now very elderly and frail but still 'hides' things all around the house in weird places.
I find it so upsetting that when she talks about her 'childhood' to strangers who have a purient interest, she pretends it was all lovely.

Hearing her stories as a child was just horrifying. Girls being held down and having their hair cut to the scalp with shears by the priest in front of the whole school because 'she considered herself pretty' and being made to stand outside in a snowstorm wearing a nightgown to 'teach them compliance' for hours because they spoke at bedtime.

Bastards. That is just two mild examples of what she went through.

TheCrackFox · 08/06/2011 20:16

Suncottage, sorry to hear about your mother's terrible childhood. It must have been horrific for her and by extension very upsetting for you.

Has she ever had any therapy to help her deal with her experiences or has she just tried to muddle through in life?

What I find hard is that Jesus (I don't actually believe in him) was supposed to be all about love, acceptance and forgiveness but the Catholic Church seems to be able to ignore his message so easily.

Tyr · 08/06/2011 20:27

In one orphanage in Belfast, the nuns dealt with bed wetting by making the child bathe in a solution of Jeyes fluid and scrubbing their genitals with wire brushes. Nuns and priests seem to have competed with each other for savagery towards children
Some of the accounts submitted to the Ryan Report were so horrific they were not revealed.
It is true that the Laundries were not confined to Ireland (there was at least one in Australia) but, as with other institutions run by the RC church, they were totally unaccountable there as De Valera had given the church the mandate for formulating social policy- in a word, the law.
For all that, it seems that few turned their backs on the church.
Week after week, the faithful occupy the pews.

TheCrackFox · 08/06/2011 20:30

"Week after week, the faithful occupy the pews"

To be fair to all the still practicing Catholics the thought of languishing in hell for eternity is quite a strong motivator.

Suncottage · 08/06/2011 21:04

TheCrackFox

No she has never had therapy, she is now in her eighties but I am fiercely protective of her. She always tries to 'buy' friendships and so many people reject her because she can come across as being needy and wanting to be liked.

As a child and a teenager I was frequently embarassed by her behaviour. She had no idea how to be a 'mum'. Now I understand what she went through at the hands of the church. It was a dehumanising exercise in every respect and I had a glimpse of it with her treatment of me.

It does go down through the generations. I once went to visit a [catholic] friend in Dublin where she proudly pointed out the park where 'a million people turned out to see the Pope.'

I would cross the road to see him if he was to apologise to my mother about the abuse she went through as a helpless baby and child at the hands of nuns and priests.

ninah · 08/06/2011 23:04

Booy sorry am still crp at links Blush but it is top search on youtube for magdalene launderies cork

5DollarShake · 09/06/2011 03:26

The Caholic Church absolutely terrifies me - I would love for a rational, articulate, non-hysterical Catholic to come onto this thread and explain the MLs in a way that I could get my head around but I don't think it is possible in a million years. Suncottage - that is just hideous what your mother went through.

DH is Irish Catholic, and it is instilled him - as much a part of his culture and heritage as Irish music and the craic. We can no longer discuss the topic because we disagree so vehemently. He is only a Christenings-weddings-and-funerals church-goer, but it makes no difference - he won't take any criticism of it. I do believe that a lot of it is pure defensiveness - as much as actively supporting or agreeing with them - since I am so anti and I think he feels compelled to speak out in support.

Our children are Christened into the Catholic church and I HATE it. I agreed because it was so important to him, and on the condition that they NEVER go to a Catholic school. I am the antithesis of all those mothers who pretend to be religious to get their kids into a Catholic school; I would do anything to keep my Catholic-Christened children out of one. The thought of my daughter - and my son - being raised to believe their insidious ideas makes me want to cry. :(

BooyHoo · 09/06/2011 10:13

5dollarshake my mum is also irish catholic and is sooo very defensive of it. there is no room for debate with her. it just isn't open for discussion and I hate to say it because she is an intelligent, succesful woman but her blind following of this religion really has me dumbfounded. i really dont understand her logic. but then a part of me thinks, it is nothing to do with logic, she was brought up in this religion and it was instilled in her to fear the priest and the nuns (at school) she has told me how 'wicked' the nuns were to her and her classmates. she talks of some of them now and it is very clear she has no love for any of them, no respect for any of them yet she still goes to mass every week, refuses to miss it and regularly tells us (non-believers) we are heathens.

WhollyGhost · 09/06/2011 11:04

"To be fair to all the still practicing Catholics the thought of languishing in hell for eternity is quite a strong motivator."

I doubt that most, or even many, practicing Catholics are true believers. However, being Catholic is fundamental to their identity. Going to Mass is a time when a community comes together, and there are huge social pressures to being part of that Catholic community. Especially where the church also controls all other social outlets - sports, community centres, schools etc, as they would have done in Ireland at the time of the Magdalene laundries.

Standing up against the church used to mean being ostracised. And it would not just be social isolation - in rural areas, and most of Ireland was rural, livelihoods depend on community goodwill.

I'd like to think that I'd have the guts to stand up to any church, but I am in a position where my family would not suffer for my stance. There was mass emigration from Ireland throughout the Magdalene laundry years, I wonder how many were eager to escape from the claws of the Catholic church?

BooyHoo · 09/06/2011 11:06

to be fair to my mum wholly she is a true believer. she believes it all. she really does.

WhollyGhost · 09/06/2011 11:10

This is not directly relevant, but it shows how little the girls were valued:

There was a fire in an orphanage in Ireland where 35 girls were burned alive and many more injured as they tried to escape. Nuns prevented evacuation because they did not want to risk the girls being seen in their nightgowns.

ciaranparker.com/2010/03/15/the-fire-in-cavans-orphanage-february-1943/

That was in 1943. Something similar happened in 2002 in Saudi, where 15 girls died, seemingly for the same reasons:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/1874471.stm

BooyHoo · 09/06/2011 11:15

fucking hell!! that is appalling!! so so Sad and Angry for those poor girls.

GetOrf · 09/06/2011 11:26

suncottage that is heartbreaking, your poor poor mother. That is so unbearably sad. "She always tries to 'buy' friendships and so many people reject her because she can come across as being needy and wanting to be liked." You must want to wrap her up in cotton wool. And it must have had such an effect on you as well, having a mother who didn't know how to.

I agree with alouise. How the hell did they get away with it, it is institutionalise criminality.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 09/06/2011 11:29

my grandma is staunch CofE but never goes to church Hmm

My dad has an Irish surname with ancestry back to Donegal. My grandma always classed my dad as Irish Confused
She says it all the time...Hes got the Temper of the Irish

I researched the Family tree back to Ireland and they left it 1799. 5 Generations had lived in Gateshead. I told her this and her reply was hes still bloody Irish and probably a Catholic. He was christened a Methodist.

SybilBeddows · 09/06/2011 11:33

good grief WhollyGhost. The similarities with what happened in Saudi are chilling.

Marjoriew · 09/06/2011 11:38

The film Sunshine and Oranges is about to be released abroad. The book version Empty Cradles, has been in print for some time.
Again, the power and cruelty displayed by the Catholic Church without interruption or investigation shows how they managed to get away with sending children to Australia without the knowledge and consent of their parents and lying by telling them that their child[ren] were dead or adopted. I wasn't a Magdalen girl, but a Nazareth House child.

Why anyone would want to be involved with, or belong to such an institution is beyond belief.

BooyHoo · 09/06/2011 11:40

"Temper of the Irish"
i know these aren't your own words fifi, but it cracks me up to hear that. as if we are all throwing furniture against walls and attcking people because we are irish. FFS.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 09/06/2011 11:45

I know Booy its mad. He is bad tempered but its got nothing to do with being Irish. Hes not, he was born in Gateshead. I once heard her say me, my dad and one of my brothers look Irish. Dont know what thats supposed to mean.

GetOrf · 09/06/2011 11:48

marjorie I have seen your posts on here about your upbringing, and they have chilled me to the bone.

I am so, so sorry that happened to you, you must still feel so consumed with anger at the cruelty dished out to you. I really hope you are happy now.

SybilBeddows · 09/06/2011 11:56

from what I understand of the logic of belonging to such a church, the point is you're not supposed to mind that it doesn't make sense. In fact, the fact that it doesn't make sense to you is just supposed to show you how far away your imperfect human understanding is from understanding the mind of God. We just have puny little human logic, see, instead of fabulous divine logic. Therefore questioning it means you are arrogant and you need to just suppress your doubts and have faith, and in fact the more crap you can accept whilst still believing, the better your faith is.
and in any case humans are sinners so if priests or nuns have behaved badly that's just because they're human and God will deal with them so we don't have to.

isn't that how it works?

Swipe left for the next trending thread