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Original poster

Bugger, I have indirectly supported a 'Christian abortion counselling service'

57 replies

ChinnyReckon · 01/06/2011 21:10

I feel conflicted and uneasy. Backstory; like other people, things are a bit tight for us at the moment. However me and DH are good at budgeting for food and bills etc and if things ever got really bad, we have family who could help us out a bit. I feel worried, though, about people who arent as fortunate as us and who are really struggling at the moment to support themselves.

So I looked online to see if I could donate food locally and I found somewhere and arranged to do this. But now I have had a proper look, I can see that apart from food donation, their other projects are pregnancy crisis counselling/Christian abortion counselling. I feel like a hypocrite. I am pro choice and I am not comfortable with 'pregnancy crisis counselling' as I feel like it misrepresents what is obviously an anti abortion stance. I feel that it tricks women into making decisions that are not neccessarily in their best interests.

I felt like I needed to write that down but given all the abortion threads recently, I feel it's better here. Do I just withdraw the offer of regular donations because I feel so uneasy or just think of the people it will help?

OP posts:
CrapolaDeVille · 04/06/2011 13:12

Phew....I was worried I wasn't right. Perhaps I should start a thread about organisations that support anti women groups??

ohboob · 04/06/2011 13:13

Wow, you learn something new every day! I genuinely had no idea about that.

hurricanewyn · 04/06/2011 13:27

The charity Life is a Christian abortion counselling service, but they also do a lot of fab community work, life providing food parcels, baby equipment, clothes or even housing to those in need.
They are more pro life than other charities, but are not judgmental and do have a lot to offer aside from this.

If you can find another service to offer food donations, and your conscience is eased then perhaps use them. But they offer such an important lifeline to those that use them. I can't ever imagine having literally nothing to feed the DCs, but if I was in that position I would take the food from wherever it came from regardless of my personal views of their politics etc just to make sue they don't go hungry. I imagine the service users are the same, if that helps???

SardineQueen · 04/06/2011 13:32

Without access to abortion there would be a lot more hungry DCs around the place.

Just a thought.

CrapolaDeVille · 04/06/2011 13:33

SQ...I like that thinking.

AliceWhirled · 04/06/2011 13:36

Crapola - yes please

hurricanewyn · 04/06/2011 13:37

I appreciate that. I don't think any child should be brought into the world unless he/she is 100% wanted and loved. No woman should ever have to go through pregnancy and motherhood unless she is absolutely certain it's the right choice for her. I'm not pro life.
But...If I was absolutely desperate and had no food to feed the DCs then I'd take what they offer. Even if their politics made me uncomfortable.

I just wanted to point out while the organisation might be pro life the people on the receiving end might not be.

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 04/06/2011 13:45

My friend works for a crisis pregnancy counselling service,
she is pro life.
I have to say I have had my eyes opened.
I am not anti abortion, I have had one myself with no regrets.
there are circumstances where it is totlally the right thing.

However, I am now a bit more open minded, an unplanned pregnancy doesn't always have to end in abortion. I think that most agencies that are funded by the state or the nhs or the abortion industry dont REALLY go into the fact that you DO have options (in alot of cases)

When I went for an abortion they asked if I had thought about what I was doing, I said yes and that was the end of it. The reality was that I hadn't thought about it at all, I was in a panic, this was (I thought) my only option.

I guess it is only ever about your own personal convictions though and it is good to be aware of the organisations behind the face of the charity.

SardineQueen · 04/06/2011 14:12

What advice agencies are funded by "the abortion industry" in the UK?

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 04/06/2011 14:18

what I mean are the clinics that are in the back of cosmo and stuff that suggest that you can get advice but I dont personally feel that they explore the other options more they are an access point for a termination
There are many many private termination clinics in the country which is why I used the phrase, it wasn't meant to be provocative.

SardineQueen · 04/06/2011 15:14

Do people really pay for termination in the UK? I find that surprising TBH. Surely most people just access the NHS. Would be glad of more info on that!

hurricanewyn · 04/06/2011 17:36

Marie Stopes
Private Health
BPAS

I've no idea of the amount of women who pay, but I expect it's like women who go private for anything else. The latest stats I can find say that 20 per cent of women opt to go private, but these are from 2007 so I don't know how relevant they still are.

SardineQueen · 04/06/2011 17:48

Thanks hurricane.

I am gobsmacked by those figures.

Original poster
ChinnyReckon · 04/06/2011 18:31

Well, Mrs T, just to give you one immediate example of 'tricking women' from this very thread - Boo went along to a pregnancy advice service and was counselled without being informed that it was a church based service. I find that a bit manipulative actually. Sorry, Boo, I hope me using that as an example doesnt upset you not my intention at all.

It's also bollocks to say that 'a lot of people regret their termination'. There's no evidence that a significant amount of women regret their termination and I have never met a single person for who that was the case. There's a thread in AIBU about that very subject and I think there was one poster out of a few hundred who felt they'd been pressured into a by a partner, I think. Oh and when I had an abortion I was spoken to by 2 docs and 2 nurses over a period of weeks and was given plenty of time and had options explained to me. There was no 'ticking a few boxes'.

OP posts:
Original poster
ChinnyReckon · 04/06/2011 18:57

Just to pop back and clarify (as playing on my mind while I'm doing dinner), I dont mean for one minute that Boo was not counselled well or not looked after. I mean that, after thinking about it, I ralised that that is what my issue is with this sort of thing. If it was clearly stated that those providing the counselling (a church/christian group/whatever) then excellent; making a choice to terminate requires some thought and no harm in talking it through and getting advice etc. But if you dont know that the person counselling you believes that life starts at conception/that a blastocyst has as much right to exist and be happy/healthy as an adult woman/that to terminate is a mortal sin or whatever, then I dont think you're in possession of all of the facts.

So anyway, I was already involved in an email conversation with them when posted and I had asked for a list of things that were particularly needed each month, but they havent responded yet maybe I should take that as a sign? I dunno, I cant make a difference really to anyone with the paltry amount I can donate monthly, I just felt that this was a way that I could help people locally and directly.

OP posts:
LynetteScavo · 04/06/2011 19:03

From what I've heard, Domino's were founded by a Catholic, who went on to set up a Catholic town in the US.

I've no idea if Domino's are still owned by the same person.

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 04/06/2011 23:24

sardine, I paid for mine out of my student loan, I was new to the town, hadn't registered with a doctor and petrified that people would find out.
I don't think I am the only one

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 04/06/2011 23:29

the other thing I would add sardine is that BPAS stands for "The British Pregnancy Advisory Service" sounds like you can get all round advice doesn't it?

BooBooGlass · 05/06/2011 08:54

ACtually, I don't think it was manipulative. It doesn't matter a jot to me that it was a Chrstian organisation. They offered me a safe place to talk about my feelings. My counsellor never once expressed her views on the subject, and nor should a good counsellor. They're not there to give an opinion. They're there to listen. The fact that my counsellor was a christian couldn't have mattered to me less. The fact that she made time for me mattered a lot. I still remember the support she gave me and for that I am eternally grateful. I very much doubt she'd have behaved differently if my decision had swung the other way. It's worth saying that one of the things they did make clear to me they provided was their company at the abortion clinic if you needed it. People might pile in here and say, yes, I'm sure they did, they'd try and talk you out of it at the last minute, but I don't think this is the case. That would have been very important to me, to have someone with me. I should have said it further upthread fwiw, but I had a friend at uni come to me a year after I'd had my dd and tell me she was pregnant. I told her to pay them a visit, which she did. SHe decided to terminate, and by all accounts her counsellor was also very supportive. I don't think it was the same woman fwiw.

SardineQueen · 05/06/2011 08:58

I am just flabbergasted that 20% of abortions in the UK are carried out in the private sector. I would have guessed at 3, or maybe 5. It's thrown me a bit, I don't understand it!

BooBooGlass · 05/06/2011 09:03

SardineQueen, my parents offered to pay for me to have an abortion, they even took out a credit card specifically fro the purpose Hmm I think it's because there can be such a wait on the NHS. An abortion requested at 4 or 5 weeks can be actually performed at closer to 12. If I had the funds and needed an abortion, I'd probably prefer to go private too.

karmakameleon · 05/06/2011 09:03

SQ, the high percentage may to do with speed of service. I think on the NHS, some people experience delays and find that they would get seen quicker in the private sector if they can afford it.

Thandeka · 05/06/2011 09:15

There has been an expose on some crisis pregnancy centres giving false information such as cervix is like a bone and gets broken open when abortion is performed. Think that was a group called "care" or something. If you go on the education for choice you tube channel they host the expose video. Is scary watching.

SardineQueen · 05/06/2011 09:17

Yes that makes sense.

So there is an abortion industry in the UK and as with any profit making enterprise their activities need to be scrutinised.

Is there any legal framework / regulation / guideline that says that abortion counselling must be neutral? As otherwise what you get will potentially vary enormously depending on where your finger stops in teh phone book...

Thandeka · 05/06/2011 09:19

There is- but not all ascribe. Can't remember what it's called though.

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