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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

985 replies

sakura · 28/05/2011 01:15

[[

#at=380 youtube]]

ANd why women are feared to the extent that they are accused of witchcraft and killed for it
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LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/05/2011 11:43

Better no documentary than one as bad as that. All it does is set up women, women historians, and feminists as fools.

sakura · 30/05/2011 11:44

No history is better than bad history.


When it comes to women's history, any history or any attention paid to what happened to women is better than the deliberate silencing of women's history that goes on in favour of "Men's studies" i.e HIstory in schools and universities

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Goblinchild · 30/05/2011 11:44

' Somehow the witchcraze doesn't receive that same level of understanding. But then women aren't human so our persecution is of no interest to anybody, except a few feminists.'

Also possibly because it is beyond living memory, around 300 years ago.
It is no longer a threat to women in this country, and has become a curiosity and entertainment
The current witchcraft issues in this countryinvolve another culture and children of both sexes, as well as people with albinism. But we hear little of that either.

I suppose most books aren't part of popular culture now either. Smile

sakura · 30/05/2011 11:45

Trans activism shows academics to be fools... why and how are universities still conning money out of students

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LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/05/2011 11:45

I do agree with you, sakura, that it's awful to see bad but 'establishment' science or history passed off as factual too (someone else made that point on the first page here, as well). But I don't think anyone's arguing we should hold feminists to a higher standard, just we have a stake in it when women make themselves look idiots. When David Starkey (for example) makes a fool of himself, I just smile and mock.

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 30/05/2011 11:47

Does that happen?

I studied the burning times at A level and took a course in gender and archaeology at university. There is plenty of good history concerning women.

This was ten years ago, btw.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/05/2011 11:47

(Btw, discussion is moving fast but I'm going to order some of those books you liked to Goblin, thanks very much.)

LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/05/2011 11:49

Stuck, I do agree with sakura that history is often taught in a sexist way. It shouldn't be necessary to study a course, or a term, of 'women's history' or 'gender studies', imo; that just ghettoizes women. And it'd be good if mainstream documentaries on history discussed women more - apart from Elizabeth I and the wives of Henry VIII, which seem to get overkill!

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 30/05/2011 11:49

Anyway, I object to the idea that "womens history" is some kind of seperate, specialist subject. It is not. Fifty percent of all history is ours anyway. I don't want to be sidelined.

Goblinchild · 30/05/2011 11:50

I've no idea if they are any good, which is why I asked if anyone recognised the names of some of the women writing from a feminist perspective. They could be offering the wrong sort for all I know.

dittany · 30/05/2011 11:55

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LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/05/2011 11:57

I do recognize a couple of names - Kieckhefe, Kittridge, Purkiss, jump out, but the first two aren't feminists that I know of. DP might be, I'm not sure how she self-identifies. Still worth a look I think.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/05/2011 11:57

Oh come on, Dittany, you cannot possible believe that mis-dating Christianity in Europe by a millenium is 'nitpicking'!

dittany · 30/05/2011 11:59

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Goblinchild · 30/05/2011 12:01

Well, I suppose Scandinavia held out until the first millenium, so perhaps there was a corner that didn't convert until 1132.

MillyR · 30/05/2011 12:04

I'm sorrry, but this is nothing to do with academia at all - you cannot just write off someone pointing out very basic historical facts as academic nitpicking. Of course it would be incredibly offensive to victims of the holocaust to make out that it happened at a totally different time or culture. The same applies to the treatment of women- we have to get at least the basic facts correct. To make out that the Roman Empire treat women well is an outrageous assertion.

This is about very basic historical facts. Durham Cathedral had already started being built before this supposed introduction of Christianity. It is open to the public and you can go and look around it. The Lindisfarne Gospels are often out on display in the British Museum. The Christian writing of Bede have a whole museum dedicated to them. Likewise, there is a huge amount about the witch trials out on display in museums, and there are museums dedicated to it. There is a witch trial museum about 10 miles away from me and I do not even live in a major witch trial area of the country. There is also a council funded guide and footpath area around where our witch trials happened. It is frequently taught in schools at GCSE
and before.


There has not been a cover up of the Witch Trials. It is one of the most well known parts of History. If people cannot be bothered to go and visit museums, which are often free, that is their problem. But you cannot make out that it is some anti-feminist cover up when it is simply ignorance that could easily be avoided by any individual in the UK participating more in the resources that are provided for them.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/05/2011 12:04

Goblin, true, but they were talking about Trier. Although they weren't sure if it was in France or Germany.

I don't see how anyone can watch that without feeling angry. Getting something so wrong implies that it's not important - a thousand years here, a thousand years there, it's all in the past so why get it right. Imagine the screams of protest if something said that about the Holocaust. But no, because the subject is the persecution of women, it doesn't matter enough to get it right.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/05/2011 12:06

Ah, cross-post, Milly!

Btw, I thought what you said earlier about it being offensive to treat non-European cultures as they did, was very true.

dittany · 30/05/2011 12:09

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dittany · 30/05/2011 12:10

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MillyR · 30/05/2011 12:12

No, Dittany, I cross posted with you.

But this entire thread is so ridiculous - I mean Creationist levels of idiocy, that I am not going to continue on it.

dittany · 30/05/2011 12:14

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Goblinchild · 30/05/2011 12:15

It is studied at GCSE history level as part of the Crime and Punishment module, which is an option on some boards.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/05/2011 12:16

We're going round in circles here. Dittany, read the thread and watch the video, then come back and talk. You're making no sense right now.

dittany · 30/05/2011 12:17

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