Feminists shouldn't try to stifle debate about abortion

[Bennifer]

I don't know whether this has already been posted, but there's a Deborah Orr article in the guardian that some of you might find interesting

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/26/feminists-shouldnt-stifle-abortion-debate?CMP=twt_gu

Ok two things for me really resonate _ haven?t' dared to read everything except op and article cos I don?t want my confused head to get turned around.

In Ireland where I grew up in the 80/90's the full horror of no medical / or any other advice or counseling (it was illegal to even discuss the possibility of abortion in any medical or counselling situation) became very real on so many levels. it very simply resulted in women on boats to UK very desperate sometimes/ often too late and certainly with zero mental or financial support

We at one point even had a referendum as to whether women 'could' and please think about this " travel for an abortion". People all over the country voted on this. Luckily it was rejected but could you imagine how would you instigate such a law? Should every woman have a urine test as soon as they travel abroad in order to check whether they are planning to travel to abort a fetus? What does that say about the freedom of women in any society?? It wasn't so long ago and not so far away.

Second point is: no we should not stifle debate and indeed think about how complex this is in our lives but don't forget who's bodies are involved and what a brutal thing the law can be ....

It's such a fantasy isnt' it, feminists "stifling" debate - like we control all the media, Fox News,Sky TV, the BBC, the Guardain, the News International Corp, the Telegraph, Dow Jones, all those media outlets are all run by radical feminists, parliament...

Oh, wait...

I thoguht she was more intelligent than this. I have no idea why I thought this, maybe because the last time I read an article by her was at least 5 years ago.

It's a backlash because the last government actually did do some stuff that helped women and now that is being rolled back, there has to be lots of chatter about feminists around it for cover.

It really shows how little power we have as a group, doesn't it?

as usual, Deborah Orr is talking shit.

swallowedafly Oh sorry, that'd be my fault, I've been flying around the world in my spangly cape with my hairy legs on show a lot recently, castrating men with my laser vision and everything. I move at the speed of light so it often seems to poor put-upon men that there are armies of us but it's just me.

Seriously, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we ended up taking some massively regressive steps in terms of the availability / legality of abortion in the UK. Cold-shouldering out charities & organisations that are pro-choice - well it's not a million miles away from what they've just done to the Poppy Project is it? Take the funding away from those uppity women who criticise the government and give it to a nice safe pair of male, right-wing, religious hands.

Deborah Orr really is talking shit, btw.

hmmm-super feminists?
them should be more worried that the underclass are finnally willing to stand up=
im willing to lead my underclass sisters all the way-
this should be interesting!
sparky x

I have a new crush on swallowedAfly :)
And am drunk, so excused a flippantly meant (meantedly flippant?) post on this supposedly rigorous board.
xxx SAF xxx
You talk sense.

Doing a WOlf!

I read a great quote somewhere about the fact that men are the CAUSE of all these unwanted pregnancies.. and seeing as they are the root cause of them... what on earth gives them the right to act as though they are the providers and witholders of the solution to the problem THEY created.

Eish, sakura, they don't cause pregnancies all by themselves! Show me the spermatozoon that can create a foetus by itself, I'll show you - umm, a fish on a bicycle.

I do believe, however, that an ovum can create one with lab intervention but no sperm. You may be underestimating female potential there - unlike yer reactionary paranoid male, who overestimates it somewhat :)

"A far cheaper alternative would be to put teen and single mums in state homes, or let their parents deal with them, instead of lavishing them in benefits and free housing. Best contraceptive ever."

and you're 100% sure that would prevent all unwanted pregnancies? ha!

meanwhile they do get put in state homes, called mother and baby units.

i just dont see the point on the anti abortion debate. abortions are legal and thank god they are! no government with any sense (even call me dave) is going to revoke the law because the cost to the state would be so huge.

In 2001ish I had a PSHE class. The classes were taken by different teachers for a term each and at this time it was taken by the schools reverend but for this one he invited in a group like life.

We were asked, without knowing who the group was, what we thought of abortion. I, and most of the class, said we were pro choice. We were well educated, private school princesses who knew that a baby in our teens was a) not done b) would ruin our imagined futures of Oxford, job in London, OE husband, etc.

He then said that he was the result of an affair. His mother, a married woman, got preg by her lover. When her DH found out he said she had to have an abortion. She refused, had the baby and gave him up for adoption. He said abortion would have been murder- it would have murdered him. He went on for a bit about being pro life anti choice and promoted adoption not abortion. At the end of the class he asked who was still prO choice and myself and my bf were the only ones who put our hands up. He told us we were disgusting. I was told off constantly throughout the class by the reverend for arguing with the man and gown a detention for being rude to a visitor. In retrospect I wish I had made more of a fuss.

It wasn't until 2003 that we had a sex Ed class that discussed contraception.