Banning girls from wearing skirts to school

[Northernlurker]

Hi

I just want to get my thoughts in order about this. Basically I have heard on the grapevine that dd1's school is wanting to ban girls from wearing skirts because they have found it impossible to ensure the skirts are of 'on the knee' length.

I am not happy about this because the arguement against short skirts is that it is 'inappropriate', it is seen in some way as a sexual and moral statement. I think this is sexist bollocks. You should not judge anybody's situation by their clothing. Dd1 has been told that her skirt is currently 'borderline'. I bought itin the Autumn term and she's grown since. I am horrified that her school seems to be saying she' 'borderline' between virtuous and slutty. It's a skirt, it covers her bottom, it's not a hazard and it's only unsafe if violent men choose to look only at the skirt, transfer their warped and vile standards to it and then act violently.

What does everyone else think?

[hulababy]

Urgh - soggy trouser bottoms from the rain or snow! Makes me shudder just thinking about it. Don't get that with a skirt and tights.

[Northernlurker]

Thanks all.

SardineQueen's post 'The bottom line here is that schoolgirls in secondary school and their uniforms are considered to be "sexy", when really they shouldn't be.' is really what I was getting at.
My daughter is 13. Her skirt was on the knee in September. It's now about 1.5 inches abover the knee. She still looks very nice in it imo. No they don't have to have pleats - thank the Lord!

I loathe the uniform in general tbh. The primary school she attended had no uniform and I really miss that!

[nooka]

Trillian I was talking about women (as this thread is about uniform for girls). I have worked in an office environment for 20 odd years ow, and I don't believe I have ever met any woman wearing a tie or a heavy blazer (like school blazers) or an ill fitting badly made skirt (like most school uniform) or an ugly shirt (like many school uniforms) or colours that didn't go together or suit the person in question (again like most school uniforms), or wearing some of the weirder uniform items, like kilts for that matter.

Of course I've met many women wearing dark coloured trousers/skirts, sometimes with a blouse or jacket. But they would be chosen by that women to suit her own style, shape and comfort. If school wants to have children dressed as if they were going to work (and I'm not sure why this is required in any case, given that many sixth forms totally relax uniform rules, and universities have none) then why don't dress codes reflect that?

Uniforms are in my opinion ways to keep children in their place, causing stupid arguments and petty harassment.

[Northernlurker]

'Uniforms are in my opinion ways to keep children in their place, causing stupid arguments and petty harassment' - YES!

Last year when it was quite warm dd1 came home from school quite upset. Her form tutor had instructed her to take off her jumper. She didn't want to do that because the stupid school shirts are fairly see through and you can see her bra. She had told the teacher she was fine but the teacher insisted she must be too hot and to take it off.

[Didyouever]

I like school uniforms as they are low cost and there's no competition for who where's the trendiest clothes.
And less grief for people who don't where trendy clothes.

[Northernlurker]

That's not the case though didyouever. When dd attended a non uniform school she just wore her clothes. Now she has uniform and clothes. I am buying over and above what she would need otherwise. It is NOT cheap. 'School shoes' in particular are expensive.
I disagree that it reduces grief and competition. There is competition over the uniform, shoes and bags because the dcs have no otherway to express their originality.
In a school that never has a uniform it really is a non-topic because teh dcs take it for granted from the moment they start.

[Didyouever]

Well it is cheaper in my case at the school my DS and DD go to.
The uniform code is strict so it can't really be got round.

And for the wear they get out of the uniform for a year, I believe it would cost me more to buy and replace their day to day clothes.

[HaughtyChuckle]

I dont think it stops bullying but I think a uniform decreases that aspect of bullying

I remember feeling sick on non uniform days coz I was poor

[priest]

NOT a member of the Taliban sorry to disappoint, lol.

I'm just one of those pesky little conservative yanks who likes to draw attention to the naively obvious truth!

Girls wearing longer skirts will:

#1. Cover more of the arousal area of the female form.

#2. Generate (in the boys) an increased propensity to treat the girls with more respect due to them not objectifying themselves with their suggestive clothing.

#3. will encourage the girls to focus more on their school work and not how they can get more looks from boys if they wear shorter and shorter skirts.

What girls wearing longer skirts will NOT do:

#1. It will not make the parents of these girls teach them that they should not have been wearing the short ones in the first place.

#2. It will not change the hearts of these sad little girls who have already accepted the objectification of their sexuality that society has dictated to them.

#3. it will not stop sexual assault, but as one poster said it will remove one of the excuses, and i believe it will help some.

To those "loving" posters who try to dislodge what i say with cute little pet names like "Taliban".....it is clear that your mind is made up on what you think and that you do not want to be disturbed with the facts, but peradventure you were open to the facts you may want to exercise a little more intellectual honesty and realize that the feminist movement has lowered yourselves and your daughters to the lowest possible depths, and that if you were to make a WILD MOVE and set a standard of "femininity" in your home for you and your girls to strive for....I think that you would be surprised at the results.

Respectfully,

[nooka]

wtf is a 'standard of femininity'.

I encourage my daughter to be the best person she can be, to express herself, to be a nice person, to work hard and to have fun. Exactly the same things I encourage in my son and try and do myself.

I teach both of them to respect other people, and to see them as individuals first and foremost. As it is summer my dd has some short skirts and short shorts too, which she is allowed to wear at her non-uniform school (good for games). If some sad bastard sees that as provocative or arousing then they are seriously perverted (dd is 10). Being comfortable and expressing herself has no impact on her grades - she is an honour role student. My son on the other hand refuses to wear shorts even in the hottest weather and does much worse at school. What they wear is utterly irrelevant.

[nooka]

Oh and I am proud to be a feminist and am bringing my children up to be feminists too. The feminist movement has brought huge benefits to my life and I am sure will bring further benefits to them too.

[Goblinchild]

'I remember feeling sick on non uniform days coz I was poor'

Me too. The bullying was vicious, it's why I got into fights and ended up contemptuous of the whole' appearance is all' ethos pedalled by girls and women who thought what you wore, and how much slap you had on was the definition of your worth.

[Northernlurker]

Feminist and femininity are not mutually exclusive.

[Grumpla]

Firstly, priest, you can fuck off and have a while you're at it.

Secondly - at my school girls could wear salwar kameez or trousers as well as skirts. I always thought that was quite a practical outfit to base a uniform on - no restriction of movement, girls don't grow out of them as quickly so no gaps around the middle, comfy and lightweight. Not vastly disimilar from some 'grownup' uniforms (nurse / pharmacist etc)

Having said that, I really think the primary purpose of a uniform should be that it is cheap and practical. That probably does rule out short skirts. Blimey, I remember the contortions of trying to sit down for assembly in a short skirt! Ridiculous.

[GrimmaTheNome]

I wish the salwar kameez would come into mainstream fashion - I feel culturally inhibited from wearing them or getting for DD - but I was always so jealous of my Sikh friend in her gorgeous 'Punjabi suits' as she called them. DD likes tunic/leggings type thing out of school, but they aren't so bloody lovely!

[mummytime]

Okay having taught in secondary schools, the problem is SCIENCE, in science girls sit on stools, if they are in short skirts, it is tricky not to flash their knickers (something years 7 and 8 on the whole don't seem to know how to do). It is also very embarrassing for male teachers, who also find it very embarrassing to bring up girls on skirt length, and who live in fear of being accused of being a pervert.
One school I know is trying to get around this by insisting on a set skirt, which has buttons down the front and so many buttons must be on show.

In my experience boys spend far more time being told off for uniform than girls. (Some do also prefer the gangster pant showing look, and do get told off for that too.)

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

Agree that the problem is not with girls but with the way schools and society SEE girls.

priest, what's a 'standard of femininity'? And, out of curiosity, do women have a 'natural desire for the male form' too or does that not come under the 'standard'?

[hannahsaunt]

Where do low cut tops come into the mix? Or cropped tops?

[HaughtyChuckle]

the stool thing is a good point I remember some horror storied of 'TOM' and very short skirts, these reasons are a more practical than 'she might look tarty'

And I remember my mum telling me she had to wear big black knickers as part of P.E kit in the 70's , seems hypocritical that schools whinge about skirts.

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

We had to wear big navy knickers for PE (I was at school in the early-mid 80s) and we did PE with the boys. Only allowed to wear your PE skirt if you had your period, which was obviously DEEPLY humiliating.

[nickelbabe]

that's awful.
we had the big PE knickers, but we wore the skirts too.

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

Actually, now I think about it we wore skirts for netball etc but had to wear knickers only when we were doing gymnastics.

God I hated PE.

In fact I hated school.

[priest]

Standard--- A rule/principal that is used as a basis for judgement.

Femininity---the opposite/compliment of masculinity.

Girls are girls because they were born that way.....novel??

Why would you take that away from them by teaching them that being more like a boy will make them happier?....which is exactly what feminism teaches.

Society needs children who are content and happy with who and what they are, and seeking on ways to teach others how to do the same, feminism is so degrading to the status of woman, it tells them that they can be just like the boys and it even goes far enough to put those that would just be content to be traditional women, under a palpable guilt trip.

1. We can/will work just like the men.
   

1. We can/will dress just like the men.
   

1. We can/will talk just like the men.
   

1. We can/will copulate just like the men.
   

1. etc. etc. etc.
   

And here we are.... on the other end of this baneful project with girls who are unprotected, unloved, and fully degraded in the eyes of boys today, all because we have given audience to the notion that girls are not girls, and that they need none of the provision/protection of the "EVIL" patriarchal system.