Sexism in toddler sport class

[darleneoconnor]

My feminist blood is boiling!

Took DD to a mini-kickers football class. I've taken her before. She enjoys it and doesn't seem to even notice that she's the only girl.

But today I was taken aback by what I can only describe as institutional sexism. It left me thinking is this why women shun jobs where they will be the lone female amongst a hoard of men? If this is how they are treated as toddlers then I can only imagine what it's like with adults.

Firstly DD was only ever referred to as 'you' whilst EVERYONE else was called by their name.

Secondly DD was the last to be given a ball to practice with.

Thirdly DD was the only participant to be given a ripped vest (which thus kept falling off) to wear when they were divided into teams.

Fourthly when they were playing tig none of the boys ever tried to tig her even when she was running next to them. They totally excluded her and this was observed but ignored by the coaches.

Fifthly they had to pretend they were on a pirate ship and one of the games was that when the coach shouted 'the captain's WIFE is coming' they had to stand and circle their hips and go 'woo-woo'. WTF is that about!!!???

Lastly when they were sitting one of the boys complained about her being there (it is a unisex class) because she was 'too slow' (not as far as I could see) he wasn't challenged by the coaches.

Then to top it all off when I told DP about it he said 'well why didn't you say anything at the end?'. AAAAAAAA!!!!!

so why didn't you say anything?

If you were that shocked then why not confront the situation? What kind of example is it to your daughter that you find it so upsetting but don't say anything?

Actually, FWIW I think you're being totally oversensitive....

Some people prefer to have a think about things before speaking up.

Not everyone is confrontational.

Some people lack confidence.

Some people don't like to make a scene.

There are a hundred reasons why someone in the OPs position might not speak up at the time. I'm surprised that you genuinely couldn't think of any.

Flyingonion I would be genuinely interested to understand why you see no problem with the "Captain's Wife" thing. I would be like this , it's just bizarre, surely?

but its a game! We play the beans one too with the french bean "oh la la" thing and by this reasoning it would be racist. I don't think its racist as its not meant to cause offence in any way, just a bit of silly fun for kids.

If the DD is having trouble making friends in the group and you don't like the instructors, you go somewhere else, surely?

I think you need to complain to someone, not sure who. I expect the men will be very defensive and close ranks, so probably not much point speaking to them. Someone at the council will be a better bet.
This is the sort of sexist attitude that children are exposed to on an everyday basis and is the most damaging because it is not challenged enough. Not saying that the op should challenge at the time, but these men do not to know that this sort of behaviour is just not acceptable. The pirate thing is definately worth a complaint just on it's own.
Is there any other activity that your DD do? At our nursery we have a professional footballer who has a soccer school and he is fantastic with the children, both boys and girls and is a fantastic role model for the younger lads who work for him.

Flyingonion if you think it's OK to teach little boys to do this then that's your perogative.

Personally I think that teaching little boys to make hip movements which (whether you like it or not) denote sex, and shout, when they are told a woman is approaching, is quite the maddest thing I've ever heard.

I am guessing that you might find a lot to take issue with in this section

yep I think so too. Have wandered in here and can see these are issues I'm better off not getting involved in!! Each to his/her own....

None of you know Captains Coming? We play it at Brownies, the sides of the rooms are port, starboard and quarter deck. They have to line up when "Captains Coming" and salute. Curl up in a ball when its "Bombs Overhead". Erm.... there is one for "Shark Attack" but I can never remember the action for that. "Climb The Rigging" (which always looks suspiciously like jogging on the spot) and "Captains Wife" means they line up as for "Captains Coming" and yes, there is some of sort wiggle that accompanies this.

I am now wondering what this would look like if one we were playing it at the end and a parent only spotted the "Captains Wife" command. However we've been playing this with them since I was a Brownie 20 years, so I've never stopped and thought about it IYSWIM.

Its also one of the few running around games we can play since a new leader who joined us objects to Ladders on basis of health and safety

Not a lot to add on the rest of it, but I was football mad as a kid, played all break time every break time for three years. My parents never supported me in finding something outside of school for me. I never played at secondary school as the boys were all loads better than me by then and I was too scared and embaressed.

Wouldn't do any harm to take out the instruction to thrust groins at the captain's wife, presumably?

we used to play Captain's Coming at Brownies 30 years ago and it did NOT include the Captain's Wife command!
must be a backlash thing....

to clarify a few points-

DD has been going for a wee while, she really enjoys it so I dont want to remove her. I sent DS to the same class years ago and dont see why I should treat her differently.

I haven't noticed anything particularly sexist (other than her almost always being the only girl (which wasn't the case when DS went)) until this lesson.

The guys running it are just a couple of young lads. I dont think they were consciously sexist. I held back from saying anything then and there because I was in a bit of shock and didn't want to be so confrontational that it would make it harder for DD in the future if she gets labelled as the one with the 'angry feminist' Mum.

I will say something about the captains wife thing, in a jokey way and will watch and wait for anything else.

Thankfully all this seems to be going over DD's head. Although I do feel a bit guilty as if I'm feeding her to the lions!

SQ: the OP didn't describe a pelvic thrust, it was hip circling and my image of that was a dance. It's the same difficulty though as some of the verses of "The Wheels on the Bus".

is the "wheels on the bus" sexist when the ladies say "natter natter natter"?

What on earth do people think hip circling is? Unless you've got a hula hoop round your midriff when you do it, it has sexual connotations.

have none of you seem the rocky horror show?

Seriously if you were walking down the road and a group of lads shouted "look at that woman coming" and they all stopped what they were doing and "circled their hips" at you would you think "gosh impromptu street dance! What larks!!!!"???

TheFlyingOnion the carers at my DD's nursery have changed it to the "Daddies on the bus go chatter, chatter, chatter..."

SQ: you're not comparing like with like. Lads in the street are not taking part in a toddlers's action song, and do not cat call because of games they may or may not have played decades ago. If they were, then they'd be saluting adult males as the Captain as well. Also, unless in an unusually sexualised group, boys that age will be seeing it as a dance, because they will simply not know enough about the mechanics of sex to put pelvic thrusting into that context. They will however have seen that more girls do ballet than boys and therefore associate dance.

What do you think circling the hips and going "woowoo" when a woman is coming means? Just because the little boys won't understand it, doesn't mean it is an appropriate thing to get them to do.

What if they got the little boys to shout "nice tits"? Would that be OK as well, as the little boys wouldn't actually know what it meant, and anyway lots of people think "blue tits" when people say tits! I mean, come on.

The thing of "the captains wife is coming" and the reaction of circling hips and shouting "woowoo" is nothing to do with modern dance and everything to do with mimicking a sexualised action that a stereotypical pirate might make to a woman. It's not right to get little boys to do this. Or little girls for that matter (weirder and weirder).

Well "nice tits" isn't part of the game.

As I haven't seen or heard how the game is done at this particular club, then obviously I can't be categoric about whether it's singing and dancing. But these sorts of action song games are common and are normally performed in a totally non-sexual way.

To turn a bit of dance into graphic over-sexualisation seems an over interpretation. I'd be more bothered that the female in the pirate crew is being put into a decorative role. OP: depending on how you conversation with the coaches goes, could you suggest a different action for the pirate's wife? I can't think of any terribly good suggestions, but two which occur are either cradling a baby (hush, hush), or fighting like another pirate (stab, stab, stab).

No, Meditrina "nice tits" isn't part of the game, but if it were, would you be defending it because the "kids don't mean it" ? I mean, yelling "nice tits" is on a spectrum with hip gyrations and 'woo-woo' catcalling, in that both are things which are, somewhere between annoying and intimidating when builders do then as you walk past, and creepy and disturbing when they're "jokes" that kids are invited to take part in by their role models (coaches). Both are kinds of behaviours that surely we don't want to teach anyone to do, even as a 'joke' - because then later in life they might think that yeah, it's totally funny and hilarious to act like that towards women.

I mean, I'm rambling I know, but saying "well they don't do the extreme thing you mentioned, so I'm not going to discuss how it's very like the thing they actually do" seems a bit too simple for me.

Darlene -

I think it is perfectly understandable that you didn't say anything at the time, but now that you've had some time to think about it you should.

I wouldn't do it with a jokey reference to the Captains wife song. As you said, these are a couple of young lads. You are the adult with the life experience and self awareness and you have an opportunity to help them realise what they are doing.

Work out what the main problem is, and which are the subsidiary issues and talk to them about it, making clear what their responsibilities are, and that you expect them to solve it -- taking into account that they've probably had no experience of resolving issues, so you need to give them loads of cues about coming up with a plan etc... which means trying to find some time with them, not treating it in a jokey way, but also not in a legalistic complaint manner.

I think the issue is about the boys leaving your DD out, and the Instuctors not modelling behavior that would encourage them to include her.

blackcurrants: I explained in my previous post why I didn't like the game, and made some (admittedly pretty poor) suggestions for improvement.

Neither of us has seen the game in action as played in this club. It's abundantly clear that you hace a very fixed idea of what is happening, so I have realised it is fruitless to point out that other possibilities exist.

But one think from your posts is very heartening. You say that this early conditioning influences later attitudes. This must logically apply to the entire song. So the bracing up and saluting of the Captain (boss, older male) must be engrained in a similar way. This is heartening.

But I don't see it happening. Because this is a game and there are other issues which need tackling.

"Nice tits" is absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this - but is more likely to happen. And it is nothing to do with OP's query - which is how to deal with a toddler's football club.

darleneoconnor: has anything helped. I noticed you said you wanted to stay with the class, and that the coaches were young. I think their age is likely to be the key part of it. You would be doing us all a service is you helped turn them into good coaches in the rounded sense, not just the football sense. This means persuasion not confrontation.

As DD is happy, there isn't a great urgency - I'd start with the order of balls being given out and the ripped vest. Do it in private (away from other parents) - perhaps take the vest off her yourself and hand it back saying something like: this one's ripped, you need to get some new ones. DD's had it a few times and it's not nice to be different to the others" you escalate if it doesn't vanish. This has the advantage of starting with an object that's wrong and should be easy to fix - you will learn from their reactions more about how to deal with them.

Then I'd move on to being last to be given a ball. This seems to be the infant equivalent of being last to be picked for a team. Point this out to them - say you don't mind it sometimes (someone always has to be last) but not every time.

You need these to go well, because to me the biggie here is the tig. The coaches aren't leaving her to one side, it's the other boys. But the coaches need to be doing more to be alert to this and to defuse it. This is part of being a good coach. Does she ever start the game as "it" - might it help if she did? Do the coaches run a commentary over the game? If so, could they be encouraged to do so in a way which tends to include her? You don't want them to out another child down, but some comments about "XY: you need to look around you more - you missed a brilliant opportunity to get XX. To be a good footballer you've got to learn to see every opportunity".

Sorry for the long post! But one last thing to add is a question: does she know any of these boys away from the club? Is there a way forward in terms of playdates, informal kickarounds after the class, or her having a football themed birthday party?

I'd be furious. I'd definitely complain so that DD can continue in her class without feeling like a spare part. Some good suggestions here how to do it.

I've played "Captain's Coming" but certainly never with the "Captain's Wife" thing. How odd.