Pls arbitrate in a row with DH as to who 'owns' our company.. (long - sorry..)

[howdidthishappenthen]

Before we were married both my husband and I worked - he was self employed, and I employed. I was originally the higher earner, then for 6 months or so whilst we were dating I subsidized him (he lived rent and bills free in my house) whilst he set up his company. The company then grew massively, and we moved into a bigger house, this time him subsidizing me (his bigger income now paying more of the bills and refurb costs).

Then we married in 2006, I fell pregnant straight away, and after a lot of rows with my employer, left quickly (and ended up winning a fortune in a discrimination case, but that?s another story) and joined my husband working in the company he?d set up.

One of the things we immediately did was set up (as a separate company) a new division offering other services to his existing clients. We used an ?off the shelf? company he already owned as the vehicle for this. The business idea for this company was his. I did the financial forecasts, wrote the T&Cs and the sales plan, and employed and trained the staff that set it up.
I worked in our 2nd company for 6 months until I had the baby, then took 9 months maternity leave before coming back in late 2008. I have since run this company on a day to day basis with little involvement from my husband (he runs the other ventures we have, so he contributes equally financially, just via a different route).

Anyway (FINALLY she reaches the point..) we have an ongoing point of tension between us that because he ?owns? the Companies House entity and he had the original idea to sell these services, he always wants to be known as ?Founder and Managing Director?; I get instead to be an employee (any title I want, but just an employee)

This grates me enormously ? I feel that as I was in on day 1, I did the legwork to get the company up and running, I have run it (or at least 80% ish) on a day to day basis for 3 years of the 3.5 years it has been in existence, and as a married couple we theoretically own everything together (even if individual assets are recorded in separate names) it?s at least as much mine as his. He says that on paper it?s his, the idea was his, so that?s the way it is and why do I want to pretend otherwise as it would be a lie?

Am I being petty? Does it really matter? I just HATE that whevever the subject comes up publically as to who is the ?boss? in the company, he NEEDS it to be him. I employ the staff, I sign up new clients, I do the banking and finances, I deal with subcontractors. In my mind, we should either both be known as Directors, or if we're going to bloody well insist on their begin only one, the MD should be me.

He thinks I'm really annoying for being bothered about job titles etc when we all share the money anyway and we aren't breaking up (on the contrary, we're very happy together), so what does it matter? ARGHHHHHH. Am I making a big deal about nothing? And if so why am I seething every time it comes up?

Sorry I'm I'm being unclear - talking it through with you guys is helping me clarify what I DO want, so this is helpful for the discussion later.

I want 50% asset share in this company and I want an equal or higher status job title in the business I run, and he can have a 50% asset share and the higher status job title in the business he runs.

(BTW I also struggle to construct a suitably sympathetic face when discussing how awful he found it to be a SAH-parent. If you've been in a high-status job, it can be bloody tricky to stop and wipe bums but sometimes that's just the way the world is.

Fine, he has ego issues with his work. But you're his wife - not his rival, not his sworn enemy or his business competitor but his partner in life and work. So he needs to recognise that your contribution has been as great as his. Otherwise he is keeping his fragile ego alive purely at your expense, and that's just petty.

And I'm not surprised you had face-composure problems!

Maybe you could assert that you are the only parent of your children, because you put in the original nutrients. He can be known as a kind of sub-parent if he likes, or a glorified childminder?

No - he knows in GREAT DETAIL that I did not thrive when I tried being a SAHP and that it is no more an option for me going forward than it is for him. With our daughter was born by c-section, I was back in the office daily with her asleep in a baby carrier on my front within 3 weeks of the birth, ffs.

Goddammit WHY does he need to make such a big deal out of publicly acknowledging what he's built together with me .

I'm making jokes about this but I almost feel teary about it. It's just so bloody UNFAIR. There is NO WAY my contribution is less than his - I was a director of a £200m turnover company before I joined him. I'd won fucking NATIONAL AWARDS for being a ground-breaking woman in business. I WAS INVITED TO MEET THE QUEEN because of the things in business I did (and regardless of what you think of monachy, that doesn't happen a lot for men OR women).

I know that this is all in the past and in business you're only as good as what you do now but goddammit I AM good at my job now. All the skills i had then working for other people I use now in our own company,but with 5 years more experience. AND I ONLY EQUAL RECOGNITION AND SECURITY TO THAT WHICH HE HAS.

SOBS.

How the HELL can we have equality when even the men we love in our own homes are such fucking passive-aggressive STICK IN THE MUDS over basic stuff. Why make me so ANGRY in my own HOUSE about OUR business.

This is not boding well for a calm discussion later.

And Dandy, I'm not horrible to him about the fact he didn't like being a SAHP - I didn't like it either when I did it, and I was impressed that he had the backbone to even try. Lots of men wouldn't. But I can only keep on handing out Brownie Points for his 3 month stint for so long, and he's really milked it to death now..

Right. I need to calm down. Hysterical anger is not a good start to any negotiation. This is my husband, I love him. He is not deliberately trying to upset me here. He has his emotional and practical attachments to his own side of this argument - it is a touchy subject for him and for some possibly valid reasons. It is not worth breaking up the company over, or shaking an otherwise excellent marriage and business partnership. There WILL be a way to negotiate a path through this. We just need to find it.

I don't get all this asking permission and having little discussions to make everyone feel better.

Get together with your accountant this week, set up a new £1 company to run the business you deal with, you are sole proprietor, grand high panjandrum, whatever. Let the other one lapse as you move the whole show across. The lapse can happen as fast/slow as you wish.

You can make it as tax efficient as you wish, you can do what you want. But if you want to run the show, run the show.

I like it a lot, catinthehat2.

Your anger and - perhaps even more - upset that the man you love and trusted is refusing to acknowledge your importance and value is really coming through. You need to think like the businesswoman you are to sort this out.

Fair point Dittany. The answer is prob a couple of days work into it, at least. BUT psychologically, I also don't want to cast myself in the position of going to him 'cap in hand' with a proposal him to accept or reject.

A plan B would involve me taking a sum of money of equal value to the value of the company from our capital, investing it myself in my own name, and going to work in that enterprise instead. If he wants our current company so badly, I guess he could scale back his other interests go back into it. It would be an odd solution because he's neither qualified in the field not interested in working in it. It's me who understands and likes the work. He's much happier doing what he does now. I really can't forecast how this is going to pan out..

... I should add, there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it when you decide to withdraw your labour from your current company where you are an employee.

I think he has come to assume that you will work for him, as his underdog is business terms, probably partly because all this started when you were pregnant, unemployed and vulnerable. Maybe he thinks he did you a favour. But right now it is you that is doing him a favour by continuing to lend him your expertise, your time and your organisational skills on a day to day basis. I really think you need to make him realise that you are a separate entity to him, you have options now about where to go and what to do, and you are only prepared to continue to benefit the company by your presence if you get what you want.

But seriously guys, of course I can withdraw my labour and go off and do something else. And over time I would be successful. It would take me a while to get up and running though. And if I exit our company, he will immediately say I'm not entitled to any of the income any more and ask how I plan to make my financial contribution to our very expense lifestyle. I KNOW this makes him a wanker, but forcing the conversation down this road is not leading to a happy place. Maybe I need to look into mediation. That's what I'd do if this were an actual discussion between pure business partners.

I am not a businesswoman, but this reminds me of the way that "stars" in sports or media can have scope to take more and more control of their contracts, and even have part ownership of the companies that depend on them. If it's the case that if you leave, the company is in a huge pickle/worthless then you have no need to go "cap in hand", you are calling the shots as to what you demand in order to stay.

But you need to have another option in mind, both for your own sake and to give you strength and sincerity in this argument.