Is Ireland correct to declare war on boys who have consensual sex with their girlfriends?

[femtastic]

Personally, I find this law to be absolutely abhorrent, and I hope it is repealed.

Court hears 'Romeo and Juliet' laws appea

THE Supreme Court has been urged to overturn as unconstitutional the so-called "Romeo and Juliet" laws which allow the prosecution of teenage boys for having sex with teenage girls but prevent prosecution of the girls.

The court is hearing an appeal arising from a 15-year-old boy being charged under the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2006 with having sex with a 14-year-old girl in the Donegal Gaeltacht.

The boy is also charged with buggery and his trial is on hold pending the outcome of the appeal, which opened yesterday and will resume on a future date.

Section 3 of the 2006 act created an offence of defilement of a child under 17 and provided for a sentence of up to five years' imprisonment. Section 5 of the act stated a girl under 17 cannot be guilty of such an offence.

In the High Court in March 2010, Ms Justice Elizabeth Dunne ruled, while the law did amount to gender discrimination, that discrimination was not invidious, capricious or disproportionate.

As the risk of pregnancy as a result of underage sex was borne by girls only, not boys, society was entitled to deter such activity and to place the burden of criminal sanction on those "who bear the least adverse consequences" of it, she said.

Outlining the boy's appeal against that decision, John O'Kelly SC said the kernel of the appeal was that both parties involved in this sexual act were children in law aged under 17, with only about a year between the two of them.

The boy's case was they engaged consensually in an act of sexual intercourse but under the act, one of them was liable to be convicted and possibly jailed for up to five years while the other was guilty of no criminal offence at all.

Mr Justice Nial Fennelly noted the 2006 act is neutral as to whether the act of sexual intercourse is consensual or not and the court was not getting involved in that issue in the appeal.

John Finlay SC, for the state, opposed the appeal and argued the High Court decision should stand. The disputed provision was a proportionate measure on grounds of pregnancy, he submitted.

'I too disagree with the belief that 15 year old girls need protecting, whereas 15 year old boys should be treated as adults. They are both 15. Give the girls the respect they deserve and treat both sexes the same.'

Seconded.

Teenagers with teachers is a bit different though. The teacher should surely have the cop not to have sex with the student!

Absolutely agree. My son is 15 and has a 16 year old gf. She has said that they can't have sex till after he's 16 as she doesn't want to be a paedophile!!

Just an aside - there have been a few references to Ireland's poor track record on womens rights. Although there are a number of issues that need to be addressed in Ireland (abortion an obvious one, also lack of female representation in the Dail), Ireland ranked considerably higher than the UK in the World Economic Forums global gender gap report.

Still is a teenage boy being pressurised into having sex, even if the general opinion is that a teenage boy can't be taken advantage of because of course he's always up for sex and is always the taker.
It's one of the reasons why they aren't listened to and are ashamed to admit that they don't want sex because it's seen as weird.
I was very proud of a relative who came and slept in my room because there was a naked female in his bed and he didn't want her there. They were both 15, but he'd have been in the shit if caught and she'd have been the fragile ravished blossom.

I don't agree at all that access to abortion reflects societies view of women. although it is a huge issue, and many women in Ireland are being failed by the abortion laws, there are many things being done right in Ireland. see post above. to view Ireland a backwater with poor women's rights is just misguided.

But using abortion access as an indicator in nonsensical. Italy has had abortion for decades but is notorious for poor women's rights.

I also wouldn't draw too many parallels between Irish and US society. Ireland is no longer the socially conservative country it used to be. People have moved away from the catholic church in large numbers and the church no longer has the same power or influence as before. Ireland is becoming more liberal, the laws and constitution are playing catch up - the US seems to be going the other way.
The backwater comment I made was unfair. Indeed you did not say or imply that.

Sjisontheway, I agree with you there. There are still legions of people going to mass but very few people quoting the bible and damning gay sinners. Also, on US tv (eg Oprah) they will talk about thanking God and looking to god for guidance blah...... you don't see that on Irish tv. Being religious in a genuine way is a bit Niche in ireland now! (can't do circumflex on the i there sorry)

Mathanxiety, I don't know if you'll see this, but you're right. There is a very male sense of entitlement in Ireland. And that is why we let many many many girls be pressured and manipulated into sex, get pregnant, drop out of education, be maligned as single mothers, or suffer an abortion which can never be a pleasant experience. Sex is risky business for young girls. But to avoid occassionally coming down hard on boys who want to get laid, we shrug and say there is no solution.

As for teenaged boys being pressured into sex, gimme a break! I don't think boys have sex to be polite, or because they don't want a girl to give up on them. Girls can't talk a boy into having sex.

My MIL has that niche cornered.

'As for teenaged boys being pressured into sex, gimme a break! I don't think boys have sex to be polite, or because they don't want a girl to give up on them. Girls can't talk a boy into having sex.'

You and my grandmother would have got on well. She was Irish, and thought that boys were constantly wanting a shag, good girls said no and tramps got what they deserved.
She would be stunned to find her views repeated on a feminist board though.

It's a license for every male to protect the women in his family who are incapable of ignoring a sweet-talking or manipulative man.
I've been under that sort of protection, given by my father. It's not fun to be thought of as so weak and vulnerable that you are incapable of being responsible for your own choices.
I'm definitely off this thread now, but I'm shocked at the prejudice and sexism shown here. I hope that the Lord sees fit to bless you all only with daughters.

Goblinchild, don't know what planet you're living on. I may be Irish but this doesn't 'colour' my views and make them backward-like-your-grandmothers. I am a feminist and YES teenage sex is risky for girls and not risky for boys. That is fact. And it's another fact that this is not addressed. So put that in your grandmother's pipe and smoke it!

I have a son and a daughter. I'm still a woman though. I still remember what being a teenage girl was like. And nothing has changed. Getting pregnant and the fact that young boys are more likely to want to have casual sex, it's still the reality for most young people. And for your information 'being incapable of ignoring a sweet talking or manipulative man' is not a crime. Dealing with that takes experience and skill. To batt off a man without turning the atmosphere a bit sour is not something that 14 and 15 year olds are born knowing how to handle.

Ds's 15 year old girlfriend left our house an hour ago to go home. She wanted ds (15) to go with her and when he wouldnt she asked him to come round later. He said he would. She asked him to come no later than 7 but he wasnt sure he could get there this early.

So my 15 year turned down the chance to probably have some alone time with his girlfriend despite the fact she kept asking him.

Why? Because he is revising for his exams.

I really dont think he is the exception to the norm either.

Of course sex is risky to boys as well as girls. If ds's gf has an STI he could catch it, if she gets pregnant he will be a father. I have made sure he is fully aware of the risks of having sex and hope he makes the right choice. I know she is aware of the risks as well. Madness to say it is not an equal relationship and she needs protecting from him.

I wonder how many teenagers you know, Valium. I am amazed you call yourself a feminist when you're views are so not.

but they're in a relationship yeah?

also ps goblinchild, dont' think you have asked yourself what do young girls need out of feminism in this context (teenage sex). It's definitely not necessary to assert that women do enjoy sex as much as men. It there is a residual notion out there that women don't enjoy sex as much as men, then that is not what is harming young girls. To remind society that young girls enjoy sex is not what is important from a feminist pov in this pornofied society. Our daughters our sexualised from younger and younger ages. WE need to remind society that despite the deeply deeply entrenched male sense of entitlement girls can say no to casual sex.

Chipmonkey, tell you mil to budge up there, make room for another one at the end of the pew. I will pray for serenity!

I so clearly am a feminist rainbowsky.

Valium you say:

'It's definitely not necessary to assert that women do enjoy sex as much as men.'

It clearly is on this thread where it is repeatedly being asserted that it is the males preying on the females, that boys pressurise girls into sex. It's just not true and you are doing a massive disservice to girls who enjoy sex by refusing to accept that it is a totally relevant issue!

The notion that girls shouldn't enjoy sex is one that is coloured by the increased risk for girls in sexual activity. Yes there's a bigger rusk but yes they want to do it.

Educating both genders, not criminalising one, is the answer.

• risk not rusk obv

eh, young girls can enjoy sex on their terms, but there is a huge amount of pressure on young girls (and on women) to accept everything on men's terms. Can you not see this?