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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is Ireland correct to declare war on boys who have consensual sex with their girlfriends?

474 replies

femtastic · 15/04/2011 14:33

Personally, I find this law to be absolutely abhorrent, and I hope it is repealed.

Court hears 'Romeo and Juliet' laws appea

THE Supreme Court has been urged to overturn as unconstitutional the so-called "Romeo and Juliet" laws which allow the prosecution of teenage boys for having sex with teenage girls but prevent prosecution of the girls.

The court is hearing an appeal arising from a 15-year-old boy being charged under the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2006 with having sex with a 14-year-old girl in the Donegal Gaeltacht.

The boy is also charged with buggery and his trial is on hold pending the outcome of the appeal, which opened yesterday and will resume on a future date.

Section 3 of the 2006 act created an offence of defilement of a child under 17 and provided for a sentence of up to five years' imprisonment. Section 5 of the act stated a girl under 17 cannot be guilty of such an offence.

In the High Court in March 2010, Ms Justice Elizabeth Dunne ruled, while the law did amount to gender discrimination, that discrimination was not invidious, capricious or disproportionate.

As the risk of pregnancy as a result of underage sex was borne by girls only, not boys, society was entitled to deter such activity and to place the burden of criminal sanction on those "who bear the least adverse consequences" of it, she said.

Outlining the boy's appeal against that decision, John O'Kelly SC said the kernel of the appeal was that both parties involved in this sexual act were children in law aged under 17, with only about a year between the two of them.

The boy's case was they engaged consensually in an act of sexual intercourse but under the act, one of them was liable to be convicted and possibly jailed for up to five years while the other was guilty of no criminal offence at all.

Mr Justice Nial Fennelly noted the 2006 act is neutral as to whether the act of sexual intercourse is consensual or not and the court was not getting involved in that issue in the appeal.

John Finlay SC, for the state, opposed the appeal and argued the High Court decision should stand. The disputed provision was a proportionate measure on grounds of pregnancy, he submitted.

OP posts:
HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 06/07/2011 14:25

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claig · 06/07/2011 14:41

But it's not a matter of making up minds. It is against the law.

HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 06/07/2011 14:51

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DontCallMePeanut · 06/07/2011 14:54

But it's hardly up there with the evil acts, is it?

By some amazing phenonemon, 15 year olds make their own minds up. They smoke underage. They drink underage. But they don't get landed with a criminal record for it, do they?

fluffles · 06/07/2011 15:01

If we all accept that a girl of 15 is unable to 'consent' by virtue of being too young, then how on earth can we say that a boy of 15 is criminally responsible for the same act?

DontCallMePeanut · 06/07/2011 15:03

Because they have a y chromosome, and they're evil... right? Grin

claig · 06/07/2011 15:04

Yes we will have to differ. The law is there so that boys take it very seriously and wait. Are you advocating that we scrap the age of consent?

claig · 06/07/2011 15:07

A greater responsibility is placed on boys by the law in order to protect girls. I think that is right.

DontCallMePeanut · 06/07/2011 15:08

Not at all. I'm advocating that we don't persecute one half of a couple that's made a decision.

claig · 06/07/2011 15:09

So do you want to proscute both equally? Should they both get 5 years in jail and be placed on the sex offenders' register?

DontCallMePeanut · 06/07/2011 15:10

Right...

"Dear DN,

You may be 15, and I know your sleeping with your BF who's two months younger than you, but you need protecting from this sexual predator... He's eeevil..."

Yeah. She'd laugh...

HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 06/07/2011 15:13

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DontCallMePeanut · 06/07/2011 15:13

No, I don't want either prosecuted... Get that?

If my DS loses his virginity aged 15, to his long term girlfriend, I don't want the cops taing him away, him spending 5 years in jail, being placed on the sex offenders register, turned away from jobs for this reason, hunted down by vigilante mobs who don't bother checking the facts, and basically having his life ruined.

If our DC are fearful of the consequences (legal) of having sex, it doesn't make them less likely to have sex. It makes them less likely to have safe sex.

claig · 06/07/2011 15:15

'Get that?'
Yeah, I get that, ta.
So you are effectively scrapping the age of consent? Have I got that too, huh?

HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 06/07/2011 15:18

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HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 06/07/2011 15:19

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DontCallMePeanut · 06/07/2011 15:19

No, because, as I have said before...

There is a difference between two 15 year olds having sex, and a 16 year old and a 12 year old having sex. Perhaps a slight change in the age of consent may be beneficial, but only to reflect those such as Spain... Their age of consent is 13, provided both individuals are under 16. Yet they have the second lowest teen pregnancy rate in Europe. Please feel free to explain that?

claig · 06/07/2011 15:20

'if your issue is that is is illegal and that alone, then it is your responsibility to ensure your teen does not participate by what ever means you have to take.'

I would take every precaution I could, just as I would with taking drugs. But I can't be there 24 hours of the day, and if someone offered her drugs, then I would want that person prosecuted, even if she willingly accepted them.

DontCallMePeanut · 06/07/2011 15:21

I'm not saying take the age of consent down to 13, btw. But have a law that reflects that a 15 year old sleeping with his 15 year old girlfriend is not some sick paedophile. because the laws don't reflect that at the moment.

DontCallMePeanut · 06/07/2011 15:23

And if she drank underage, claig? What if (aand this is what I used to do aged 14) she smuggled alcohol out of your house to go get drunk with her friends?

claig · 06/07/2011 15:23

'Its easy to prosecute the boy, how about if they started prosecuting parents of both teens?? Would you think that fair??'

I wouldn't put it past the progressives to try a trick like that. But as ever, it would be unfair, as it would have nothing to do with the parents. In my view the boy would have the major responsibility.

HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 06/07/2011 15:25

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DontCallMePeanut · 06/07/2011 15:25

"In my view the boy would have the major responsibility." What if the girl instigated sex? What if she pushed him into it?

HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 06/07/2011 15:25

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claig · 06/07/2011 15:27

'Their age of consent is 13, provided both individuals are under 16. Yet they have the second lowest teen pregnancy rate in Europe. Please feel free to explain that?'

What they do in Spain is different to how we run our society. It's not only about pregnancy.

'The boy is also charged with buggery and his trial is on hold pending the outcome of the appeal, which opened yesterday and will resume on a future date.'

In my opinion, he should be prosecuted.

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