Feminist women wanted for PhD research.

[CarlyGuest]

Hi Everyone,

I am a PhD student in the Department of Psychosocial Studies, Birkbeck College, University of London

I am looking for women aged between 18 and 35 to take part in a study of women?s feminist identities.

As a participant in this study, you would be asked to take part in an interview about how you came to see yourself as a feminist and what being feminist means to you. This will involve talking about personal photos and images that say something about your feminism.

Your participation would involve one interview lasting approximately between one and two hours.

If you are interested in taking part in this study, or would like further information please contact me (Carly Guest) Email: [email protected]

This study has received ethical approval from the Birkbeck College School of Social Science, History and Philosophy Ethics Committee.

Thanks!

Carly

I think it can be fun being a feminist. Not in the "postmodern enjoyment of pole dancing as liberation" way, but it's quite fun not being hung up about sex and virginity and monogamy. Not having to spend half one's life grooming and worrying about appearance.

Also it's generally enjoyable having a partner who does half the childcare and housework.

Also quite fun being able to spend time at paid work yakking about feminism and writing about it.

not to discount the problems feminists face, but I do not personally experience feminism as non-fun.

Oh yes Fennel I definitely agree that being a feminist is fun for all te reasons you quote and many more!

I just find the term "being fun" / "being bubbly" is so often a synonym for "being nice quiet thick sexually compliant", that sort of thing.

Not saying that feminism itself is all dour depressing stuff, oh no sirree bob!

Hmmm... I don't know analytica ' A lot of what we do is about challenging stereotypes through subverting people's expectations, so puzzling juxtapositions are intentional '. Sounds a lot like academic gobbledegook to me. Please could you take the time to explain how the objectification of women for the titillation of men has anything to do with feminism (never mind radical feminism)?

Don't yet me wrong, if you guys are into dressing up and dancing, that's great but don't pretend it has anything to do with equality

I hear you Fennel. I'm not saying that feminism is a no fun zone. I laugh a lot at a couple of feminist blogs and I laugh sometimes on here too.

I'm just being reminded of the notion of 'humourless' feminists to which I always tend to think that I can't think of a single funny thing about the various manifestations of oppression cited above.

Oh and since the OP has not come back to the thread, to prevent it from being derailed, I somewhat resent being told to take an already established conversation elsewhere

Liberating, perhaps, rather than fun. But to me it's a whole lot more fun being liberated than living in thrall to the patriarchy.

Yes, I see what you mean Fennel.

I'm just always a bit confused by the idea (not that this is what you are saying, I'm just musing out loud) that feminism should be fun.

You don't see people complaining that the civil rights movement are a right humourless bunch.

I'm really suspicious of the fun notion because it veers close to the 'only having a laugh', 'can't you take a joke' crap that women hear all the time. I'm all for holding the patriarchy up for ridicule in a blaming/shaming sort of way however. I think we have to be really really careful not to laugh at our oppression though. 'Tis a slippery slope.

A lot of the "humourless feminist" gibes come (IMO) from men who don't like it if we don't laugh at their crap or put out for them, or respond sweetly to their overtures.

I do think there is a difference in women attempting to create fun and challenge notions of sexuality away from the heteronormative context. IF that's what they are doing with burlesque etc .

"Please could you take the time to explain how the objectification of women for the titillation of men has anything to do with feminism (never mind radical feminism)?"

I'm afraid I don't have the time to explain at the length that would clearly be required to overcome the determination of people on this forum to disagree. Perhaps you could take the time to look at some of our videos before deciding that our show is just about dressing up and dancing.

Dittany: I know what radical means and I will choose the terms with which to describe my own approach to feminism, because I know myself rather better than you do. Please do not make assumptions like that.

I am not trying to argue that anyone "should" be fun in a way that feels inappropriate for them, or that feminists should laugh at oppression. It's entirely up to you how you approach feminism, I'm just saying that we don't think radical feminism is in contradiction with fun.

Yes, we are (mostly) young and middle class. We're not as diverse as we would like to be. We're working on it. That doesn't stop us from being feminists.

As soon as I am can get to my laptop, I will have a look (iPhone crap for these sorts of things).

However, it is a cop out to come onto this thread, accuse some of us for not understanding your pov and then placing the onus on us to figure it out. It is because you are unable to articulate it? (Which is fine btw, there are many things I feel but am unable to express adequately) or is it because it really doesn't have much to do with feminism?

It is perfectly possible to be a feminist and like burlesque (IMO, I know some will disagree) just as it is perfectly possible to be a feminist and shave your legs/knit/enjoy baking/put highlights in your hair. But the fact that I like perfume does not make perfumery a feminist art.

Hey annalytica - I looked at some of the videos which is why I'm wondering why you choose the moniker burlesque when, to my mind, satire is a lot more gender neutral.

It is difficult to have precise info on the origins of burlesque because it was a long time ago.

I have read before that dancing women in feminine worship were part of Ancient Greek burlesque. IIRC penis jokes featured too. I'm no expert on the subject but it does seem that the 'bawdy' element of burlesque has always been patriarchal, thereby to my mind, it has got 'owt to do with radical feminism.

Still, good for you young women to be thinking about things and poking fun.

I'm afraid I do agree with Dittany however that radical feminism is a definite and historical concept within which either one's actions fall or they do not. Having said that it is really hard to shake off patriarchal internalisation all the time.

BTW my 'laughing at oppression' comment was not aimed at you or about your show. I was speaking in general.

Dittany, do you agree with Beachcomber's description of your view that "radical feminism is a definite and historical concept within which either one's actions fall or they do not."

So when, on this thread and others, you describe an activity or an attitude as being not feminist/unfeminist, you are thinking about radical feminism with clear delineations.

Fair enough, I'd've thought. Is it then that you don't believe that there are other types of feminisms, or that there shouldn't be, which are prepared to encompass other views/activities?

Not trying to pick a fight with you, BTW. Happy to on many other threads, but this is a genuine question.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your comments. I just wanted to respond to a couple of points.

The age restriction is not because I don't consider feminists older than 35 to be interesting enough - part of this project involves looking at the the already published memoirs of 'second wave' feminists. However, for this part of the research I'm particulary interested in how women who weren't independantly active in the feminist activities of the 70s and 80s tell their stories of how they came to be a feminist, including who influenced them and how they relate to the history of the women's movement. I understand that 'women who weren't independantly active' will include those older that 35, but I had to decide on a limit. So whilst women between 18 and 35 are the focus of the empirical part of my research, this is in the context of work on how historical narratives about feminist theory and activism are produced, and how feminists of different ages are positioned, and position themselves, in relation to these narratives. My research is also 'in conversation with' similar oral history type projects focusing on 'second wave' feminists, such as Sisterhood and After www.sussex.ac.uk/clhlwr/1-7-11.html (the lower age limit is for ethical reasons)

I'm not connected to the burlesque site Lashings of Ginger Beer, my research is being advertised on there as well as numerous other sites. I'm very grateful to them for advertising it (and to everyone else who has circulated the advert). I'm trying to cast my net as wide as possible and not just interview fellow students.

Finally, I'm using the images as an alternative means of presenting a narrative, alongside and not in place of words.

I hope that clarifies things, if anyone is interested in participating, please email me.

Best wishes,

Carly

(Another Lashings of Ginger Beer performer here)

Dittany: Personally, I prefer to describe Lashings as a "Radical Queer Feminist Burlesque Collective", separating the 'Radical' label from the 'Feminist' label to help avoid assumptions about what branches of feminism we align ourselves with. Our definitions are explained on our blog info page, further clarifying our position:

lashingsofgb.blogspot.com/p/about-lashings-of-ginger-beer.html

As far as I understand it, the group's decision to use the "Burlesque" label was an attempt to reclaim the term and to help draw it in a direction that we consider to be closer to its historical roots than the striptease-heavy shows we mostly think of today. For my part, I've never performed in a corset, or in (or out of) clothing that I would consider inviting of objectification. All of the items in our setlists tackle issues within feminism and/or queer activism. If you're currently unable to watch the videos on our main site right now, some of the appraisals our work has received may help to clarify our perspectives:

lashings.org/reviews.html

@Beachcomber:
We chose 'burlesque', at least in part, because we want to pull in the audience of women who've read in cosmo that 'burlesque is empowering', and give them something better than "stripping out of vintage clothes". And also because 'burlesque' does describe what we do better than satire - the 'variety show' nature of our songs and sketches, the fact that gender and sexuality are at the core of our themes, the way we expose absurdity in patriarchal attitudes by turning things "up to 11".

@dittany
To me, this is what it means to be a Radical Feminist:

Recognising and fighting patriarchy wherever I find it (and it's bloody everywhere), believing that nothing short of a revolution in how we construct and think about gender is going to end the systematic oppression of women.

And Lashings of Ginger Beer is one of the tools that I use to work towards this.

One of our acts is set to a song by the Indelicates, called "Our Daughters Will Never Be Free", which explicitly deals with the failures of third wave feminism to deal with the complexities of issues around packaged-and-sold "empowerment", and why that is selling out the women of the future. Another song, called "Eyes of Men", talks about the problems of being a woman-who-fancies-women, when the only cultural contexts we are given for finding women attractive are those of male objectification.

I'm too old to take part in your research, Carly, but it sounds interesting.

Good luck with it.

Oops, accidental Lashings of Ginger Beer pile-on.. Carly, I'm very sorry for hijacking your post, and good luck with your study!

OK Lashing's folks. I had a lightbulb moment earlier anyway and the phrase 'it's just marketing with a bit of reclaiming' popped into me head.

I have trouble with the notion of reclaiming - one because I think it doesn't work and two I think it tramples over those who have been harmed by a practice/slur/word in the past.

Don't worry about the pile-on. You are very welcome to MN.

I still don't think burlesque can be described as radical feminism however.

@Beachcomber:
I think reclaiming does work in some contexts - eg I know some women who've taken the sting out of street harrassment by reclamation: "yeah, I'm a fat dyke and proud, what's your point?" - but I know it can be problematic too. For example, I love the word "queer" to describe myself, but know that in some contexts (especially when I'm interacting with older members of the LGBT community) it can be a reminder of hatespeech.

With 'reclaiming burlesque', though, I'd think we're only doing the same thing as people who are 'reclaiming gay' by fighting the use of 'that's so gay!' as a derogatory phrase. It's not quite the same as reclaiming something that started out as a slur - it had a meaning before "stripping in a corset", and we like that meaning.

@dittany:
What you call "gender", I would call "patriarchy". Rethinking gender, to my mind, is about diminishing the power of patriarchy by exposing its double standards with regard to how it treats the people it genders "female" and the people it genders "male". We mostly do this through comedy, exposing the absurdity of patriarchal ideas. Perhaps the utopia I imagine at the end of this is one where gender ceases to exist, and we're all just people.. perhaps not, though, I don't spend much time on utopian thinking when I can be out smashing the patriarchy.