Surnames and women - thought you lot might be interested

[JaneS]

I went to a lecture last night and one of the points that came up was about surnames, so I thought the MN feminists might be interested since it relates to those arguments about taking or not taking one's husband's name.

I've often heard people say that by keeping your 'maiden' name, all you're doing is keeping one man's name in preference to another man's name. Of course there are arguments against that (it's the name you've been known by all your life, etc.), but I thought this was interesting:

Apparently, lots of common English surnames like Brewster, Baxter, Webster, come from Anglo-Saxon words that have been given a feminine ending. So, a Brewer is a male maker of beer; a Brewster is a female maker of beer. A Baker is a man; a Bake-ster (Baxter) is a woman, and so on.

So, it seems - although we can't prove exactly how it happened - that at some point in history, families took the names of a female breadwinner.

I have no idea how significant this is in academic terms, but it's rather nice, isn't it?

-estre makes me wonder if oestregen has its roots in the same stem. Does anybody know?

I am going to tell and re-tell this to anyone who will listen. Thank you LRD, I have greatly enjoyed learning this.

I guess they might both come from the same Indo-European root?

I wish I'd asked more questions now! I'm not at all knowledgeable about philology, I only went because the title was something about gender.

oestrogen comes from Greek via Latin into English. It meant sting, gadfly or sudden irrational impulse. I suspect that it was the last meaning that originally connected it with the feminine, much like the word 'hysteria'.

I haven't seen any evidence that it is related to the -ster suffix, and it seems to me that -ster and -er are phonologically related. I think it is simply the feminine form of -er.

just had a thought - could -estre be related to Easter, as the word derives from the name of a Saxon goddess?it of a longshot, I know, but wouldn't it be nice! The etymology is much more pleasant, as it relates to words meaning dawn and light.

Ooh, that would be lovely if it were true!

I've no idea and don't quite dare email the lady who gave the talk as she is very eminent and my Old English is so very poor! I'll see if my mate will ask her supervisor for me, though.

well, LRD, my Old English is also very poor! I did study linguistics, and etymology is one of my favourite subjects, but English is not my area of expertise. I only know things from past English from things I have picked up in my other courses of study, where these things overlap, and personal interest. However, if anyone wanted to email me about my own subject area, I would be delighted! I rarely meet anyone who shares an interest. So you never know.

Seriously, though, I'm not suggesting you put yourself on the line contacting the speaker. I was just airing some thoughts that occured to me re etymology of estre in my previous post.

That's very interesting Little Red Dragon,

I'm intrigued by family history, especially researching the female line. Seems my mother's mothers came from Lincoln and Lincolnshire. Great-great grandmother may have been a milliner living on Lincoln High Street

One of my DD's best friends is a Webster, so I'll be sure to let them know that one of her female ancestors was probably a weaver of cloth, and family name came from her !