'Feminism is dead - long live Equalism' - What do you think??

[PacificDogwood]

I consider myself a feminist, but a rather uneducated one - I have never read any specifically feminist literature, mainly out of fear I might combust with frustration and rage and denial is how I keep going.

So, I heard the above statement on the radio this morning. Apparently it was said by a 19 year old woman and the person on the radio (her mother, I don't know whether she was 'somebody') felt that a new generation of young women (and men) will be true post-feminists.

I like the idea and can see that it might sound less exclusive/threatening/hardcore to some (men, mainly, but also woman who do not consider themselves feminists for whatever reason), but clearly we are way, way, way off equality.
Doesn't mean it is not a good goal to trive for - so is the movement/philosophy that is femisism due a rebranding? Or is this all just spin of the worst sort??

I can't make up my mind. Please share your thoughts.

Can I tentatively come in and say something? (I am female BTW despite the name.) This idea that some people have that feminism is unnecessary or is about women wanting superiority over men, rather than seeing that there are still massive inequalities - do you think it's fair to write everyone off with that view? I certainly used to think like that before I came across some things that I read which challenged it. But it seems whenever anyone expresses the view that feminism is unnecessary/about women being superior on a thread the only replies they ever get are "Oh please!" or "FFS!" - hardly challenging their assumptions?

I don't know, maybe most women who identify themselves as feminists have always been aware of these inequalities etc, but I wasn't - it was only when I became aware of these things that I realised what feminism is really about and that the stereotypes of feminism are ridiculous, before then I never questioned them, because I never had need to. The realisation did come quite young for me but surely it can happen at any age?

bertie - I think that's fair, I always described myself as a feminist but I definitely had what I now see as wrong-headed/simplistic ides about issues like sex work. So if I went from 'baby feminist' to 'fuller feminist'(or something!) its totally possible for people to go on a journey from not being feminist at all.

But the reason that the responses can be brusque or uniiluminating, is (from my POV at least) that feminists get SO sick of explaining Feminism 101 to people who are often not really asking in good faith, but hoping to 'catch us out'. Whewn someone encounters a feminist online they want them to debate and defend things in which, if they were genuinely interested, they could google.

Luckily there are always patient women out there readfy to explain the reasons for feminism online. But if Im not in the mood, I don't feel it is my 'responsibility' to 'educate' or 'be reasonable', so that people will join the cause. I know you're not saying that BTW - but a LOT of people online love to lecture feminists about how if they 'moderated their tone' or were happy to explain the same basic concepts 10,000 times, we'd get more support. Fuck that!

Undoubtedly, some non-dickheads lose out because of that though. But the info really is out there, as you know.

Yes I think very obvious MRA's or regular anti-feminists, get short shrift and that as is it should be.

But people who ask in good faith, are usually answered in good faith.

What BertieBotts says resonates with me: I used to think in my shallow yoof that I did not 'need' to be a feminist anymore, because brave women in the 60s and done all that.
I also equated 'feminism' with bra-burning and not shaving your arm pits - yes, v ill informed and not very reflective.

I do think there is an image problem...

PD if we changed the image of feminism, within a couple of years it would have the same image as feminism now does.

In fact, I ahve a feeling that feminism might have been adopted as a term when women's liberation went out of fashion as a term (but am not sure of that).

Either way, anything that promotes the idea that women are full human beings and that the world we live in should be designed for us to function in as fully as men do, will immediately be tarred with a negative brush, whatever we call it.

Ok, so the issue is not so much what 'it' is called or labelled. Fair nuff.

I think part of my stance comes from that I just cannot comprehend how anyone would think somebody else was worth less due to their sex?? Just seems such a waste of the potential of half of the human population.

Thanks for all your thoughts.
Maybe this Angry Had will have to start reading stuff...

Pacific - I am v badly read too even though I have an MA in a subject that covered a lot of feminist theory and critical legal theory (many many years ago). I have forgot it all and the other thread on feminist reading matter nearly made me faint.

Quick one re that old favourite "negative portrayal of men in ads" - I could rant for days on that cliche. 1. The fact is that women are portrayed as morons in ads as well but it is so ingrained in our cultural conditioning that nobody notices. 2. Women make the overwhelming majority of consumer purchasing decisions - if men want to be better portrayed then they could try going and buying the dog food and washing powder once in a while.

Women do make TV ads as well though. I am one of them. Clientside, it's a fairly female dominated profession.

My (probably naive) thoughts about this issue is that anti-feminists are the ones who 'branded' feminism in the first place - suggesting (in a derogratory way) that feminists are all ugly, man-hating, anti-family, hairy lesbians.

Basically, what you (or the woman on the radio) is suggesting is that we think up another name, but that new name will only have the same treatment and, before long, the anti-feminists anti-equalists will have managed to smear that name as well.

Really, when you think about it, it's a bit pathetic and narrow minded not to listen to an argument just because of the name it has. Whatever the movement is called, it will always be hated by anti-feminists, and narrow-minded people will always refuse to try to hear what feminists are saying.

Hmm makes me think of "the Equaliser" where equal probably = dead.

I think younger people often think that gender equality has been attained because they are much less likely to have experienced (what they might perceive as) serious discrimination. When I was younger I described myself as an "individualist" because I rejected the idea of being defined as female (I felt, and still do to some extent that people should be judged as individuals).

Although I recognised sexism I just didn't see it in the broader context so much. In a lot of ways I think that it has been having children that has made me much more aware of how segregated things still are (plus seeing a whole bunch of things getting much worse) and much more personally angry about issues.

A reactionary friend of mine once said that the problem of equality isn't between men and women, it's between mothers and others.

There is obviously a tiny grain of truth in that, but her perception came from the idea that the only thing stopping women being equal, was that they have babies.

Which of course is bollocks. It's still true that it's having babies which suddenly wakes a lot of women up to the truth that sexism still exists though.

BertieBotts wrote - "it seems whenever anyone expresses the view that feminism is unnecessary/about women being superior on a thread the only replies they ever get are "Oh please!" or "FFS!" - hardly challenging their assumptions?"

I think quite a few posters say a bit more than that and do challenge people.

Just for the record, here are some definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary.

feminism : "Advocacy of the rights of women (based on the theory of equality of the sexes)."

womanism : "Advocacy of or enthusiasm for the rights, achievements, etc. of women."

equalist : "One who asserts the equality of certain (contextually indicated) persons or things."

I think I must just have seen threads before where the poster expressing the views was a known troll/wind up poster who I just happened not to have come across before that point. I've seen some since where people have elaborated/explained things.

People with no job, people with 2 jobs. I do think we would benefit from more equality.

We are said to be the most unequal society in Europe.

Many people coining it, many others not sble to join in for one reason or another,

We will never do anything about it; until governments own up to it. HMG are in denial

Big Society, Big Cover UP. Get real Cam and Ossie. "Gabby"