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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Marriage and Feminism

42 replies

LadyBlaBlah · 17/02/2011 18:28

I am having trouble justifying my marriage in feminist terms.

I can now see that marriage is the sum of its history, and that history encompasses subordination, drudgery, property theft, and even the legal impossibility of rape.

When I look at marriage in this context, I am quite mortified to participate in such a structure.

How do other feminists justify it, if you are married too?

OP posts:

FlamingoBingo · 19/02/2011 19:35

So possibly in a feminist utopia the number of women who would prefer to be single might be far less, as there are far fewer shit men around.

HerBeX · 19/02/2011 19:53

Yes, in an ideal world the same number of women and men would be happy or unhappy with the single or married state, it would all come down to personal taste/ character, rather than systemic, inbuilt advantage to one partner.

Guildenstern · 19/02/2011 20:01

FlamingoBingo I don't think there are enough good, equal relationships out there for a study. :)

HerBeX · 19/02/2011 20:18

Oh such cynicism...

FlamingoBingo · 19/02/2011 20:21

Don't make me feel even sadder, Guildenstern!

Galdem · 19/02/2011 20:25

My mariage was, if I'm honest, a lazy way of making sure we had equal rights to all property and material wealth (for both of us). The marriage ceremony (it was a civil ceremony in a reg office) also conveniently acted as a public statement to our family and close frineds that we were shacking up together for the foreesable future.

There was no 'proposal'. We agreed we both wanted to get married (after 7 yrs together, and one child ).
I didn't wear white.
There was no engagement, diamond ring or any of that nonsense.
Our mothers were witnesses. My dad did not give me away or make a speech.
I made the only speech / toast at the meal afterwards.

So far, so good. We have been together 11 years, married 4 years, another child has arrived. We are a partnership, and try very hard to just be ourselves, not constrained by gender stereotypes (as far as that is possible in our society).

Marriage hasn't changed any of that.

guyane · 19/02/2011 20:48

Late to the discussion here... I agree with the post about it being an agreement for a partnership till death... and (permit me to speak from personal perspective here) since I feel our marriage is no longer (and has never really been, TBH) a partnership, I want out. However, we are now coming up against more differences in our approach to coparenting - I can, he can't, basically because he sees no future in staying around if he can't get laid . So beware, is all I can say, that you're really sure that you're both coming to marriage from similar perspectives!

FlamingoBingo · 19/02/2011 20:53

But if one partner is refusing to work as a team, then the partnership (as a 'state') has broken down and therefore the contract should be IMO 'null and void'. One person has broken his/her promise to work together.

The whole point of a good relationship is that you both are always open minded and willing to be persuaded. If one partner is stubborn and refuses to hear the other person's thoughts and ideas, then it's not a true partnership IMO.

guyane · 19/02/2011 20:58

Exactly. 'Null and void' would be a good option - but legally it's not, is it

Wamster · 20/02/2011 12:06

No, it's not, I'm afraid, guyane. That's precisely why the government -if it is going to involve itself in 'nanny state' initiatives - would do well to stress the legal side of marriage via education campaigns.
There was one poster once on mn a while back who seemed incredulous that her spouse may be entitled to her house (at least a part of it) because they were married.
I think she honestly believed marriage was about hearts and flowers and romance and love (it is in part, but only in part because nobody needs to be married to love another so surely marriage is for other reasons like legalities). Her ignorance stunned me, to be honest.

darleneconnor · 20/02/2011 12:07

Marriage tend to give women more rights so I see it as being quite a feminist thing to do.

Wamster · 20/02/2011 12:08

HerBeX, Your happiness hierarchy is zero surprise to me. Nice to have scientific back-up, though.

Blackduck · 20/02/2011 12:45

The happiness hierarchy is mentioned in Wifework as well. She also states that women who see their marriage as fair or equal are usually those who feel their partner supports them emotionally.....

Darlene - I am having a problem with that statement, but can't work out why.....

HerBeX · 20/02/2011 13:11

I understand Darlene's point in that in a context where women have very few rights, grabbing them where they can makes sense.

The problem is the context. If women didn't have very few rights, if they were operating on a level playing field with men, they wouldn't need to grab rights where they could, because they already have them.

Blackduck · 20/02/2011 15:58

thanks HerBeX - I think that is what I am/was grappling with....

MrIC · 20/02/2011 18:42

I really objected to some of the questions the (female) registrar asked when we applied for the marriage license - what my father did, for example? Why not my wife's? Why not my mother?

My wife has kept her name (ironically at my insistence), we wrote our own vows stressing equality, had a civil ceremony (no paternalistic religions for us!) with a female celebrant, had a best woman, our mother's both gave speeches, and we walked in together. So I feel we managed to strip out or negate the worst bits of marriage's history.

[I'd actually been completely against the idea of marriage, for much the same reason as the OP. Until I met my wife... then I knew I wanted to get married! ]

MrIC · 20/02/2011 19:11

Obviously "wedding" is not the same as "marriage" but still...

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