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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

High Heels WTF is it about

164 replies

FattyArbuckel · 05/02/2011 17:04

Why in this day and age do we STILL worship high heels

I think they are one step away from chinese foot binding and can't look around the pavements without cringing...

Really, why do women wear them? I think they look awful.

Rant over - just could not keep it in any longer today....

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HerBeX · 09/02/2011 15:43

I am incredibly short and only wear high heels for formal/ going out/ tarting up wear. People always ask why I'm not wearing thema nd my reply is always that even with 3 inch heels I'll still be a short-arse, you won't be fooled, so what's the point.

The thjing is, if you wear high heels, your feet can't be pretty - they become deformed and revolting with bunyans etc. I quarrel with the suggestions that feet are ugly - mine are gorgous. Grin

Unrulysun · 09/02/2011 14:48

Don't we like heels because if I'm 5 inches taller I'm proportionally slimmer and, as we all know, you can't be too thin?

ReturnOfTheBoomBap · 09/02/2011 13:26
Grin

True.

But what if we both need a file from a top shelf Grin. Or want to watch the football on a screen in a crowded pub. Or I feel like affectionately stroking his bald spot?

I agree, in general - heels are part of the wider cultural phenomenon of women being expected to wear uncomfortable, impractical clothes. Skirts. Lingerie. Shapewear. The list goes on...

I still like my dominator boots, though Wink

sakura · 09/02/2011 13:05

but what if you both have to peg it to the bus?

ReturnOfTheBoomBap · 09/02/2011 13:01

I think the high heeled boots make me (persoanlly) feel 'assertive' (not that I need much help in that area Grin), because they take me to way over 6 foot, and so much taller than most men. That says much more about men than it does about women, in my opinion. The alpha male isn't such an aplpha when a 6"3 women is towering over him, I find.

sakura · 09/02/2011 13:00

lots of reasons: fetish, making women look unstable and weak i.e feminine, making sure they don't emasculate men by appearing stronger than them. In China it was not only to make men feel masculine, but also to prove he was rich enough to keep a wife who was hobbled i.e to display the fact that she didn't have to work in the fields. There's also the pain factor, the sado-masochism behind seeing women's feet crippled, which takes us back to ballet, where women often left trails of blood on the stage after a performance

Ephiny · 09/02/2011 12:34

Men don't usually feel the need for special footwear for being assertive either.

It's really interesting actually, the more I think about it, women's feet and footwear seem to be tangled up with all kinds of cultural significance completely unrelated to their function as feet. Whereas men's feet are just, well, feet.

I wonder where this comes from, and why it's feet in particular that have taken on this significance?

Prolesworth · 09/02/2011 12:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TheSmallClanger · 09/02/2011 12:30

That's kind of the crux of it, as I see it - you've inadvertently nailed it, BoomBap.
Men's feet are allowed to be simple walking devices. Women's feet and ankles are supposed to be elegant.
We are talking about feet here. Feet are just about the ugliest, but usefullest part of the body. Why should feet be prettified out of their purpose?
We don't talk about women having elegant elbows, or slim, attractive thumbs, do we? Can't we just have our feet for the purpose they were intended?
(I realise this is from a position of able privilege, and do not wish to marginalise anyone with foot/mobility disabilities).

ReturnOfTheBoomBap · 09/02/2011 11:34

I am a 6 footer, so have always naturally got away with not wearing them (people don't expect me to, I guess).

I love the look of heels for special occasions - they make the foot and ankle look so elegant - but I cannot wear them on a day to day basis and am aghast at women who do. They hurt. You can't run in them or bolt up and down stairs in them. They are so limiting. They reduce the wearer to a tottering lay-dee only fit for life's niceties. Grim.

I do occasionally wear a pair of high heeled, knee high boots to work, though. They are fantastic for days when I need to be intimidating super assertive with senior fuckwit males Grin

TheSmallClanger · 09/02/2011 11:30

Hate hate hate high heels, and always have done. I am short, and it's the expectation that I should wear them that annoys me the most - I actually had a shop assistant tell me once that the pair of trousers I was trying on was actually cut longer to accommodate heels. They dragged on the floor. My way of justifying my not wearing heels on fancy occasions is to joke that I am exactly a foot shorter than DH, and I don't want to upset the ratio. It annoys people.

I try to be tolerant, but I hate the noise that stilettos make on floors, hate the affected way they make women walk, hate the way we're supposed to obsess over them.

Interesting that someone brought ballet up - it really is a mass of feminist contradictions, isn't it? In its favour, it is one arts discipline where women's contribution is truly valued, and where female perfomers increase in reputation as they age (up to a point). It is also wonderful and strangely inspiring to watch.

BlingLoving · 09/02/2011 09:55

This is very interesting, and I am reassured to read that the view seems to be that high heels themselves are not the problem, only if women feel obliged to wear them.

I work in a very formal environment - suits and ties for men and similar for women. but I have noticed there is a real trend away from very high heels, without losing the smartness or formality. A women on my team is a master at buying very smart, attractive low heeled (almost flat) shoes and there are a number of others in the office who are the same.

I tend to be in the "mid heel" category, but that's a choice. I do wear both higher and lower heels at work and play regularly.

I will admit however, that I don't understand why for some women flat shoes has to mean casual or sloppy, even in a formal work environment. You don't see men in the office wearing loafers or flip flops, so I can't work out why some women think that their right not to wear high heels means they can wear very informal shoes at the office.

QuestionNumber · 09/02/2011 09:36

I loathe high heels. I find them uncomfortable and pointless. I read a theory why they're supposed to be attractive - something about making the legs stretch in a similar way to how a female mammal's leg looks in a mating position Shock Put me off heels even more.

sakura · 09/02/2011 09:30

thanks, really interesting!

You're right, ballet is a feminist nightmare.
Such a gorgeous art

NacMacFeegle · 09/02/2011 09:04
sakura · 09/02/2011 09:02

sorry, it was me. I fell into the old trap of valuing something more because a man happened to be doing it Blush

NacMacFeegle · 09/02/2011 08:58

I think he might be the only one.

I thought about what I said afterwards - I didn't mean it was physically amazing because he was male and did it, after all, women have been doing it for hundreds of years (and it's one reason for the tininess of the women too, I did pointe work as a teen, but at 5'7" and size 10/ 9 stone, it was very difficult indeed.) I just meant that, as an individual, he was an amazing dancer, and that it was very cool that he was disregarding expectation and tradition in that way.

I actually think ballet is a feminist nightmare, but it is also very beautiful and art - tricky area altogether. DD does ballet and Irish Dancing, DS1 only does the Irish, not for gender based reasons, he just took a notion against the ballet teacher and lay on the floor and GROANED for the whole trial lesson Blush

sakura · 09/02/2011 01:04

I bet it was amazing. OH well maybe ballet is allright then if men are starting to go on points (although I realise the point of feminism is not to get men to suffer like women have to...)

NacMacFeegle · 08/02/2011 22:13

Re: the ballet - I saw a company doing Sleeping Beauty where the bad fairy was played by a man, who went on pointe - it was fantastic. Really amazing to see.

Unrulysun · 08/02/2011 11:43

I think I may be right in saying (and Sakura may know) that there were some cases in Japan a few years back where women were involved in terrible car crashes because their heels got stuck under the brake pedal/on the accelerator or something?

I have lots of heels and I love makeup but I'm with Dittany - the only reason I feel I need these things is cultural conditioning. I have one friend who doesn't wear heels or makeup and she's 6ft with porcelain skin.

There's a playground joke: why do women wear makeup and perfume? Because they're ugly and they smell. :(

sakura · 08/02/2011 01:03

I know Jess, it's heartbreaking to apply feminism to ballet because a) you know Sheila Jeffrey's is spot on and b) ballet is an almost etheral art, it's like nothing else, and to find that it's almost entirely based on patriarchal values is just so sad. I lived in Russia and watched the Bolshoi many times.
The plus side of ballet, i suppose, is that it's really a female art. It's one of the only arts where women are paid far more than men, for example.

TryLikingClarity · 07/02/2011 21:57

I know this is the DM, and they are a MN no-no, but I saw this article and just thought WTF are you wearing, love?! Confused

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1354400/Chart-topper-Jessie-J-gets-extra-lift-extremely-high-wedges-performs-intimate-gig.html

JessinAvalon · 07/02/2011 19:32

@Sakura-I read that chapter in Beauty & Misogyny past night too and was also sad to read about ballet shoes. It has never occurred to me to think that they were anything very bad. I have danced en pointe but it was when I was in my teens and we used animal wool to cushion our feet. We were told that professional ballerinas don't cushion their feet and I remembered feeling a bit horrified by this.

I am seeing the ballet twice in the next month and am now feeling a bit guilty about it.

It was a very interesting chapter though. I was sat in a staff briefing today and found myself assessing the shoes of the 30 odd women in the room. There is something about the female professional uniform which "requires" heels, it seems. Those who were dressed most smartly were also wearing heels.

I do feel pressure to conform to this look but I guess the pressure comes from within. No one has set out that I must. And I don't think my boss would care if I wore make up or heels as long as I get the job done.

Original poster
FattyArbuckel · 07/02/2011 18:07

I was struck the other day looking out of my window when I saw a slim, attractive woman dressed in a dark trouser suit with high heels. She is the saleswoman for the showflats opposite me.

She was conventionally and conservatively dressed in "business style" and looked smart and yet also to me suddenly utterly ludicrous because of the shoes. So this expectation that in order to dress for business in a smart, conservative and conventional way you need to wear shoes that are uncomfortable, bad for your health and impractical for walking (although walking people around the flats is part of your job) suddenly struck me as stupid.

As has been said earlier in this thread, women in the public eye never wear flat shoes. So is it really a choice?

OP posts:
nooka · 07/02/2011 15:53

I tend to think that everyone else is smaller than me, pretty much regardless of height Grin. It has to be a very tall person to make me consciously aware of them, but I think that's just a consequence of having a 6'5" dh.

I have occasionally described someone as short and had a surprised response.