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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

feminism and homebirth

73 replies

darleneconnor · 25/01/2011 21:08

I have noticed, although this is maybe just anacdotal, that a lot of pro-HB women in RL and on MN are also feminists.

I certainly feels that my pro-HB views are part of my feminist identity. Has anyone else thought about this?

OP posts:

FlamingoBingo · 25/01/2011 22:02

If a woman has made an informed choice to use them, that is great. If she has had the intervention pushed on her, then that is wrong IMO.

Has anyone on this thread read 'Stand and Deliver'?

FlamingoBingo · 25/01/2011 22:03

Tethersend - what do you mean by 'anti-HB'? Do you mean you would never have one yourself? Or you are against them in general and don't think any woman should have one?

tethersend · 25/01/2011 22:09

More that I am not 'pro HB'- the opposite IYSWIM.

I think it is often sold to women as 'their experience' (as are a lot of birth options) and I think this is disingenuous and can lead in some cases to a feeling of failure, which concerns me a great deal.

I am very interested in hearing other views though.

TheProvincialLady · 25/01/2011 22:16

That's fair enough. I think women need facts and choices, not to be literally sold home birth or hospital birth.

KatieMiddleton · 25/01/2011 22:25

I'm pro-home birth. I had one and i'm definitely a feminist but I dont think everyone should have a HB. And pro-choice on most things.

I think the traits that make you more likely to have a hb (or indeed any other kind of birth where you set the agenda so I'd include elective c-section too): not taking things at face value; doing your own research; making a decision that you feel is in your best interest; not just doing what you're told and is considered the accepted norm are all feminist traits too.

wukter · 25/01/2011 22:26

Very good post Katie. You'll be an asset to William, dear

KatieMiddleton · 25/01/2011 22:28

Just so long as no one finds out about that home birth. Or that I have opinions

MillyR · 25/01/2011 22:30

I'm not pro-HB. I have no experience of midwives the way FB is talking about them. They did not call me dearie or defer to a doctor. The only people in the room when I gave birth in hospital were midwives; I never saw a doctor. If there are issues with the behaviour of doctors in hospitals, that needs to be addressed by the doctors changing their behaviour, not by women feeling they can't give birth in a hospital.

Asides from which, a huge number of women aren't safe in their own home because they live with an abusive partner (frequently domestic violence starts during pregnancy). Midwives are already complaining that the more frequent presence of men at antenatal appointments means that women aren't getting the opportunity to tell the midwife about domestic violence. If we cut women off further from other women by promoting homebirths we exacerbate some women's problems and give their partners another opportunity to isolate them.

For many others their home is where they work, and going to a hospital, particularly a midwife led unit attached to a hospital acknowledges that the birth is about women - it is special and so takes place in a special place. Many women want to give birth in a female environment; for most women their house is not a female environment.

There is no way I would want to give birth at home. I'd probably end up making cups of tea and putting on loads of washing during childbirth. I wanted my birth to happen in a hospital, surrounded by other women who were having the same experience. I did not want it reduced to some run of the mill event that I would do at home.

Different women want different things, and it certainly is a feminist act to go out and fight for the right to have a home birth if you want it and others are needlessly standing in your way. But promoting homebirths above hospital births is not a feminist act.

wukter · 25/01/2011 22:31

I think you put it very well though, that it's the traits they share rather than one causing the other.

Going off to mull for a while.

LeninGrad · 25/01/2011 22:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tethersend · 25/01/2011 22:32

"If there are issues with the behaviour of doctors in hospitals, that needs to be addressed by the doctors changing their behaviour, not by women feeling they can't give birth in a hospital."

Exactly, MillyR.

wukter · 25/01/2011 22:34

Exactly MillyR.

And who'll end up washing the bloody sheets?

wukter · 25/01/2011 22:34

pardon the pun

KatieMiddleton · 25/01/2011 22:35

I don't know of anyone who's pro-HB who promotes it above hospital birth Two completely different things in my opinion.

If you have low-risk pregnancy and uncomplicated labour and you're comfortable at home then why not homebirth? And if you'd rather be in a hospital fine. Whatever makes you happy.

I really don't understand people who object to women having homebirths because they wouldn't want one themselves and try to justify it with some utter guff.

MillyR your domestic violence justification really takes the

wukter · 25/01/2011 22:42

MillyR's anti-housework justification really chimed with me - but I'm possibly being a bit facetious.

MillyR · 25/01/2011 22:44

KM, I don't object to home births; I just think it has to be a woman's choice.

Domestic violence is something that feminists are concerned about, and something that midwives are concerned about.

It is a sad fact that the risk of being a victim of domestic violence increases during pregnancy, and many women don't have a supportive home environment.

KatieMiddleton · 25/01/2011 22:57

Well having had a HB (and I know this is just one example so not saying conclusive proof or anything) my dh had to do lots of housework pre birth and clearing up post birth which isn't that bad because you just get big tarpaulins and bin them. Birthing pool however...

I also had two mws in my home at a stressful time which can't hurt for spotting domestic violence and I think dv is not a feminist issue.

Protection from dv is a right all people deserve andmtgs vast majority of people want.

MillyR · 25/01/2011 23:02

I cannot even be bothered to get into a discussion with someone who thinks domestic violence is not a feminist issue.

KatieMiddleton · 25/01/2011 23:09

FlamingoBingo · 26/01/2011 09:02

I don't think people who 'push HBs' are actually doing that, you know. I've never, ever heard of anyone 'pushing HBs' so please point me in the direction of an example of that happening!

I think people who you think are pushing HBs are, in fact, pushing informed choice, which is a different matter entirely. It's like when people bemoan people pushing BFing, when actually, they're just trying to make sure that women are making informed choices. If no one told the truth about breastfeeding, then the only people who woudl tell you about baby feeding would be formula manufacturers.

I am a nurse - I can promise you that that way of speaking to women and patients at all, is very, very common. Even just watching OBEM, you can see midwives being patronising to women - not all, I grant you...probably not even the majority...but it does happen. And it's not a mother-centred way to behave. I've heard midwives refer to 'getting a natural delivery out of a mum' - how is that honouring a mother's work!?

ThePosieParker · 26/01/2011 09:48

KM....Really? You don't think DV is a feminist issue?

i wonder if the incidence of patronising women is more commonplace in less educated patients. I, for one, have never been patronised by health care professions...but then I am either too stupid to notice or too thick skinned?!!

wukter · 26/01/2011 09:55

Oh I don't know. Patronising, or soothing? Patronising or Mothering the mother? How do you encourage and console a perfect stranger, in pain, with her fanjo on display? Could all be in the perception, and let's face it in labour is not generally your most clear minded time.

ThePosieParker · 26/01/2011 10:03

I had community mws, nice women, and then emcs so perhaps there wasn't time!!

anastaisia · 26/01/2011 10:06

Is it really about home/hospital birth or is it really more about consent and ownership of bodies, and the balance of power in 'society' vs in the home?

In most other medical situations doctors/health professionals advise and help patients to decided on a course or action/treatment. Yet time and time again women post and talk about birth experiences that have left them feeling as though they have been raped or assaulted. That they have been treated like a child and not been allowed to make their own adult decisions. That doctors have started examinations or procedures without explanation or gaining consent to do so. And might some of that come from the fact that there is a general perception that women are perpetually consenting unless they indicate otherwise?

So home birth is perhaps one way of shifting the balance of power? As is paying a doula to be there. Or probably lots of other things individual women do.

And that doesn't mean that all health professionals will be that way, or even all birth centres or hospitals; but that just the fact that it is a system and you enter into it makes for a some imbalance of power because of the way it's structured.

Does that make sense?

But, I was interested in Milly's comment about female environments. I had a home birth, and live in a shared home with family - including my mum. And actually, that it was 'her' house did make a difference; both to the way I felt, the level of support I had, the care afterwards.

eastegg · 26/01/2011 10:44

Hospital birth is not intrinsically sexist and homebirth is not intrinsically feminist. I can't bear the idea we should all stay away from hospitals because there are some men there who have some medical qualifications and therefore some power. They are,save for some bad examples you'd find in any sphere of life, helping women. Good for them. There are female doctors as well you know.

katie I'm sorry I don't agree with your list of traits a home-birth chooser is more likely to have and I don't know on what evidence you've come up with that. I've got those qualities and I used my ability to think for myself to decide a hospital birth is best for me.

If strong-minded, independent-thinking women do give birth in hospital, things in hospitals might get better.Although it's everyone's individual choice, of course.

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