"Normal" advice to not walk around at night in Bristol.

[Motherfunster]

As a Bristolan woman I was a bit put out by the police advice that there was no specif threat to women but to take the "normal" precautions of not walking around after dark on your own.I was taken aback at this as theirs nothing bloody normal about it.

I tried contacting the local reclaim the night people but to no avail.The local students need to be advised and the bloody clicky feminist of Bristol need to understand that this is issue that need to be addressed.

I cant do anything about it do to certain circumstances.A word in there shell fellow Feminist MNers please if posable.

If there was a reclaim the night march now, a lot of us would go on it.

Motherfunster said that the initial police guidance was that women should follow normal precautions and not go out at night unaccompanied. If that's what they said I agree with her - no-one has said up until this point that that wasn't the initial police advice. If the police never in fact said that then why has no-one mentioned it up until now, and everyone's been talking as if they know what she's talking about?

I mean the thread was about whether it is OK for the police to say that women not being alone after dark should the the "normal" advice - people have been agreeing or disagreeing on that basis.

In fact here it is

bbc

"I can understand why the public in the local and wider Bristol area have concerns for their safety at the current time. Whoever killed Joanna remains at large.

"However, I want to reassure the public that at this time there is no specific intelligence or information to suggest an increased threat to their safety.

"Naturally, we ask the public to take the usual safety precautions. Women should avoid walking home alone after dark, householders should try to keep their premises secure and just take care when answering the door to strangers."

Hi all
I am typing on my phone so apologies for typos and conciseness of message.

To join Bristol Feminist Network please email [email protected]

See also: www.bristolfeministnetwork.com/

There is Bristol Fawcett. The email address is
[email protected]

Fawcett meets on the second Weds of every month. The BFN yahoo group is open to anyone who wants to join. Fawcett's is opened up to new members after they have been to 3 meetings.

I would say that Fawcett is more formal. We have an agenda and minutes and try to share actions out fairly. BFN is different in that there are discussion groups, book groups and more ad hoc events

Both have active Facebook groups where you will find a list of all the events.

Members of both groups have been in touch with the police and the council about the street lighting in Clifton. Apparently this is an ongoing debate. Residents have complained in the past about bright lights shining into their bedrooms and also they are Victorian style lights and some residents have campaigned to keep them dimmed so that they are in keeping with the style. (A little strange, I know.) I think there is going to be a meeting between the police and members of both groups so that the police can understand our position and concerns better. I will keep this forum updated as and when I hear anymore news.

@Dittany, in answer to the question about the RTN march. We do have one planned for this year. I have not been involved in the organising of one myself so it is difficult to comment but those who have have said that it is very time consuming and is hard work and that there is a lot of preparation. Having organised events on a much smaller scale, and been exhausted as a result, I can sympathise. There is a lot of 'behind the scenes' work that needs to be done.

It was felt anyway, after much discussion, that a march was inappropriate at this time. There is a grieving family who do not know what happened to their daughter before she was murdered and it was felt that a march at this time would be inappropriate for the family. Hence it was decided to proceed with the suggestion of an vigil (I don't know when or where).

Bristol has a very active and wide feminist network and it is led by a number of hard working individuals. Other than London, I don't know of any city that organises so many feminist events. We are in the paper all the time. There is a lot of hard work going on that many people don't see or hear about but there are people who spend hours at council meetings, influencing policy from the inside. There are people who take direct action every single day, even though it might be on a small scale. We worked so hard on the Hooters campaign, I can't tell you!

Please be assured that all of the issues discussed on this section are being discussed and addressed by the feminist groups in Bristol.

Just briefly coming out of lurkerdom to thank everyone for their responses to this thread - I'm currently co-writing a report on a small survey into how safe women/men feel when out in public places in our local town. Your comments are really useful in explaining why it's important for women not to feel under some sort of night-time curfew as many people do seem to accept this as normal.

If you don't mind ISNT we will also use that BBC weblink as an example of the sort of attitudes that still exist.

When the report is complete it will be available here
harrogatefeminists.wordpress.com/feeling-safe-in-public-places-a-survey/

Jess - thanks for that. Interesting points about the street lighting in Clifton - it is pretty terrible and its the same in Redland and Cotham as well but I didn't realise there were ongoing discussions about it

Can't believe the whole 'dimming' issue..you would think the residents would put safety first - and its not just for women walking alone, there is a lot of petty car crime in Clifton also

I wonder if the clocks not going back in the Autumn will make a difference?

I know that when I was in Clifton, I hated going out after dark or getting taxis back alone and I wasn't the only one..you do tend to live under a self imposed curfew and the journey home (bus, taxi or walking) was never a relaxed one by any means - sadly

that sounds awful Riven. One of the things that i love most about Bristol is that have found most of the people really open minded...its very sad to hear that its not like that all over the city.

I do not like living in Clifton. Its far too posh for me! i am hoping to move to Stokes Croft/Montpelier area in the summer. Hopefully a little more diverse than Clifton! lol

Oh yes, those areas are definately more diverse than Clifton! Crime rates are not good there though so check that out before you decide to move!

Quite a lot of Bristol is pretty open minded.. some parts of Easton are starting to become quite Notting Hill ish with funky cafes and a general chilled out vibe but there are other areas that I would describe as BNP supporter type areas and they are not pleasant at all!

Motherfunster-I'm sure the organisers of the RTN march would love some help. They'll be forming a working group soon to get it organised. If you contact BFN and offer your services, however small, I'm sure they would be delighted to accept offers of help.

I'm sorry to see you are concerned that we are a cliquey group. We have been in touch with our mailing list regarding an RTN and although there was some suggestions about a vigil, we haven't heard about anything specific being organised. We also need to consider what the Yeates family would want. We would of course support and advertise any action that happens, providing it was sensitive and respectful, with clear aims to help prevent vawg.

The issues surrounding VAWG never go away, and will still be valid in November, when the annual Christmas safety campaigns rear their heads and will undoubtedly focus on what women can do to prevent being attacked, rather than what men can do to prevent violence. Rather than RTN being a response to a particular and sensitive case, we aim for it to be about the issues surrounding vawg, with the aim to educate, support services and encourage a better conviction rate. It takes us about three to four months to organise RTN so it just isn't realistic for us to host one immediately.

You'll be pleased to hear that we are meeting the police on Thurs to talk about the tone of their safety advice, and will be feeding back the thoughts and discussions we've had with BFN members. We have also been working with the press to get out the message that women's freedoms should not be curtailed.

In terms of political cartoons - i think a strong and visual message about women's safety would be great. Perhaps we could put it on the website to illustrate the statement? Also, do you know the Bristol University Feminist Society? they would be in the perfect position to flyer women within the university.

In answer to the question about joining the network, please see: www.bristolfeministnetwork.com/
and scroll down.

I'm glad to see the advice has been changed from 'Women shouldn't go out alone after dark' to 'people should take normal precautions when out alone after dark'.
Reminding people not to roam around dodgy areas alone at night while pissed or listening to their Ipods is generaly sound advice - people are much more at risk of being mugged than being murdered by a deranged serial killer (and women are more at risk of being murdered by their partners than by a serial killer on the street).

I think that RTN marches aside, more women (those with mobility/health issues or single parents of small DC are excused) should make the effort to go out alone after dark. The risks of harm are actually fairly small. The more women on the street the better. I have been roaming the streets at night time for nearly 30 years now and I have never had more than a little minimal hassle, and a couple of of muggings.

As a member of Bristol Feminist Network, I'd like to respond to this comment by motherfunster:

Just wish the local lot would get there act together and stop being so bloody introspective.Fuck harmonized singing at each other and bloody get a march going.

The network has issued a statement about their stance on the police advice. They are highly sensitised to the situation the Yeates family are in, and would hate to make their grief any worse in trying to score points off the police. Imagine, for five seconds if you can, that you have lost a child, and a local political group make a protest in her name. It's not helpful, and I'm sure the police are working extremely hard to find whoever did this.

There is more than one way to skin a cat and I'm aware that the network have arranged a meeting with the police to discuss the issues. We can get what we want without alienating the family of Jo Yeates or attempting to score political points from the police with a protest which will take more resources away from what they should be doing - finding the killer.

Finally, I'm really disappointed that the spirit of sisterhood and solidarity, so central to the feminist movement, seems to have been lost. Talking about the network doing "harmonised singing" to each other does none of us any favours, as women and as feminists. The network have achieved so much over the years and this belittlement is unfair and unkind. If we can't even start a conversation with each other without being rude, how can we move forward?

Further to my message above.

We have been speaking out about this issue with the press to raise awareness that the message to women to not be out in the dark is not practical or appropriate. It places the responsibility (and therefore blame) on to the woman not the attacker.

We also raised the issue at our Where are the women event on Monday at the Cube.

We are very aware that the Yeates family are at the centre of a media circus and feel strongly that we would not want to contribute to that. We feel strongly that the message of RTN is universal.

We are also trying to raise awareness that the advice is sexist, and that women are at risk of violence in their homes. 1 in 4 women will be a victim of DV in their lifetimes and 1.5 women a week will be murdered by a partner or ex partner. This is all part of the messaging of RTN.

As JessinAvalon said, RTN takes months of organisation and a lot of hard work and dedication. We will start organising the 2011 RTN soon and so please get in touch if you want to be involved - we need volunteers!

And if you would like us to pass on your thoughts to the police when we meet them, then please get in touch.

Blimey - have just logged on and seen what a battering us Bristol feminists are getting from some quarters, mostly Motherfunster. As JessinAvalon and BristolFeministNetwork, and some others, have pointed out - there has been a heck of a lot of discussion about what we can collectively do to raise awareness and show our support for this issue. It's all been covered above so I won't repeat it. Suffice to say, I don't know who Motherfunster is or why s/he thinks that all Bristol feminists do is sit around singing (what a bizarre thing to suggest?!) - but I also don't know why - if they have so much time to complain (badly) on MN about us, why they also can't find the time to do something about this themselves? It's very dispiriting when feminists gang up on each other - we have enough struggles in life from patriarchy as it is, without inventing more for the sake of it.

I'd like to point out that Bristol Feminist Network put on an excellent event last Monday called "Where are the women? Here they are" - further information here: bristol.indymedia.org/article/701084

This featured only women performers, and one act did some lovely duets for female voices, of old folk songs.

If motherfunster is poking fun at this event, and the women performing, I am deeply disappointed. Activism takes many shapes and forms, it isn't always just about getting out on the streets and making some noise. It was a beautiful, inspiring event, and shouldn't be belittled in this way.

NathanDetroit - Well said.

NathanDetroit

further to your point about the where are the women event, that was a chance to hear women's voices. women spoke, and sang about their experiences of violence, their experiences of being women growing up in patriarchy. we talked about the police advice and how we were angry with it.

the issues are linked. women are silenced. we are kept out of public space (stay indoors! don't walk in the dark!) and we are kept out of cultural space (all male line ups, all male award shortlists, all male anchors, all male directors etc). this event was about making a stand, saying that we need to celebrate women and speak out and have our voices heard.

so if it was a dig at the women performing, then that is really sad.

When women work together they get stuff done. From harmonized singing to organising Reclaim the Night every year for the last 3 years in Bristol, to running the Representations of Women in the Media project, to dealing with the often vile press and media in Bristol (who would no doubt promote a backlash against a reactive Reclaim the Night march), to ensuring the email group is well run, to tirelessly canvassing the views and being respectful of the feelings of all the people in their network, there is a tiny group of brilliant, passionate, dedicated women making a profound difference for gender equality in Bristol (in their spare time while holding down full time jobs!) and I for one salute them. They keep asking for women to join in with the organising and couldn't be less clicky or more open if they tried. Let's direct our love at Bristol Feminist Network and our vitriol at men who perpetrate violence against women!

I can categorically state that there has never been any group singing at any of the Fawcett or BFN meetings that I've been to. If I was to sing, the room would be cleared instantly and we'd not get anything done.

As someone who taken annual leave to go and speak at council meetings on feminist issues, and spent hours of my free time on writing statements and lobbying the council, it is disappointing to get criticism of this nature on MN. And I am one of many who spends their time on these activities as MumBristol says as well as working full time (and I know that MumBristol spends a huge amount of time on feminist issues and is to be applauded for all her hard work over the years-she is an extremely hardworking and dedicated feminist campaigner).

Perhaps Motherfunster would like to offer a retraction of her original comments?

MumBristol - "...dealing with the often vile press and media in Bristol (who would no doubt promote a backlash against a reactive Reclaim the Night march)..."

Indeed, during the first Reclaim the Night that BFN put on, the press and media across Bristol were extremely negative, accusing BFN of putting women at risk and encouraging dangerous behaviour. There's really no winning with the press and the backlash would put so much pressure on both the network and individuals concerned. Bristol Feminists have been branded hypocrites on the front page of the paper in the past - is this really the best way to get the message across?

motherfunster - you come across as incredibly angry, and I can imagine how frustrating it must be to be in a position to feel unable to make a difference. BFN have sent an email out just today asking for comments for the police. It's not the same as getting out on the streets, but it is the most constructive way we can say what we think, without hurting the family of Jo Yeates.

Just out of interest - I have been reading that some are advocating men should stay in, and also that more men are killed by random assaults than women - is this true??

Heroine -

The reality is, that for the most part, people of Bristol will continue about their day to day lives. They might be more afraid than usual, but no one, man or woman, is going to stay in, not go out or go to work, because of anything Avon and Somerset Police say.

The crime statistics show that young men aged between 16 and 24 are far more likely to be assaulted, mugged or attacked on the streets after dark than any other age group or sex.

In an ideal world, men would have a lot more awareness about the effect their behaviour has on lone women walking the streets and the "bad men" wouldn't exist.

If we had a choice, and the police are going about setting informal curfews, those curfews would be directed at men - those who generally are the focus of any trouble, and the cause.

I'm only reading the other side because I had a stand up row with a friend of mine who was freaking out over her daughter being shouted at in the street, when her son had been beaten up and sent to hospital as a result - yet she still thought it was OK for him to walk home because 'he can take it' which I thought was really unfair.

I googled 'man injured in street assault' and there are pages and pages of cases that i have never heard of - it does seem unfair that a young man's life seems worth less than a womans :( perhaps its cos its rarer I suppose, but that seems a bit sad that in this day and age we still see men as expendable :(

Heroine, I don't think we see men as expendable - I think we just see them as autonomous while we infantilise women.

And by 'we' we mean society of course