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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Minor rant - shouldn't watch the telly!

70 replies

ISNT · 10/11/2010 19:25

The one show

Just had a thing saying that women's pensions are much lower than men's and double the amount of women as men have no pension provision whatsoever.

Report started by saying about how the old idea that women aren't any good with money (not heard that one but anyway) isn't true but now we've seemingly got equality, how is this happening?

Aha, I thought, they will obviously talk about

  • Women doing lower paid work than men in general
  • The gender pay gap (different money for same work)
  • The hammering to women's pensions and earning potential if they have children and take more than 3 seconds out of work
  • The fact that until recently women usually didn't qualify for a full state pension because of not enough NI cont due to time out raising children

Did they talk about that? Oh no. First they said that women only want to spend money on things that are tangible. So pensions are meaningless to them.

Then I missed two mins while I looked at a gossip thread Blush so they may have said all the above in that section... but... I doubt it as when I tuned back in they were talking about women shopping excessively to fill emotional voids in their lives, then they talked about women having lots of debt due to frivolous shopping, then they rounded it up by saying that whether the "purses were prada or gucci, women had to remember they held the strings".

How will we ever get anywhere, when lazy gender stereotypes are propogated in this way, and the real deep problems are not even mentioned???

OP posts:
ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/11/2010 12:39

there was just too much to say. You could also question why exactly credit card debts are equated with frivolous spending. Plenty of people use CCs to pay for essentials like childcare, car maintenance, travel, etc etc. And even typical "shopping" use of CCs is far more likely to include such "designer" items as kids' clothes, supermarket shops, stuff needed for the house etc etc etc.

Do you see a lot of men volunteering to do the family shop? not really. let alone going into town on saturday to get little Jimmy new football boots for school or to pick up hooverbags or the other million little expenses that accumulate.

Also of course a far greater number of women have dependents living with them, in terms of children.

ISNT · 11/11/2010 12:44

I put all of my supermarket shopping on a credit card. I had missed that they equated credit card debt with frivolous spending. (Not that I'm in debt but still).

And they think we're thick Hmm

OP posts:
sethstarkaddersmum · 11/11/2010 12:53

I picked up on that in my complaint - I said there was absolutely no evidence women's higher levels of debt were because they were buying designer clothes and that it might well be because they were more likely to have caring responsibilities and no money.

I must say even apart from this ghastly report I found the programme pretty much unwatchable - too much simpering.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/11/2010 12:57

SSM - good. And it's good I suppose that we're all ppicking up on similar but not the same points.

I hated that end remark from Matt if that's his name as well. Just a thought - maybe Matt's sisters aren't as well off as he is? Long shot obviously, knowing how underpaid TV presenters are.

Did anyone else notice the female presenter looking really pissed off/uncomfortable at the end of the report?

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/11/2010 13:10

"79% of women go shopping to cheer themselves up" - they might go into town and wander around a bit with their friends, but I doubt that is where the debt is coming from.

Also just a quick point - if they were earning more they might not be in so much debt? Hmm

Sakura · 11/11/2010 13:39

why would women need to cheer themselves up so much more than men?

Why indeed...

NonnoMum · 11/11/2010 13:45

The best thing you can do for gender equality, is to not watch daytime TV.

Sakura · 11/11/2010 13:54

well, it's not the best thing you can do, but it's true that if everyone stopped watching TV it'd be better for gender equality.
Problem is, the people who need to stop watching TV the most aren't going to...

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/11/2010 13:57

The One Show is on at 7pm. Not that I am advertising the sexist bollocks. The only thing that could have made that report worse would have been having to listen to/look at Adrian Chiles afterwards, so thank goodness he's gone.

Bue · 11/11/2010 14:02

Elephants, I have completely gone off that Matt character after that unnecessary last comment. No longer will I be cheering for HIM on Strictly! And yes, I noticed that Alex didn't look very impressed. I was hoping Miranda Hart - whom I happen to really like - would get riled up about it with some cutting humour, but sadly not, she just made a joke reinforcing the stereotype.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/11/2010 14:12

I love Miranda Hart. But she has made a whole career out of self-deprecating, hardly likely to stop now, sadly.

sethstarkaddersmum · 11/11/2010 14:14

if they ever bother replying we can play Pathetic Response Bingo.

I reckon they're going to say 'This was a light-hearted piece'.

piprabbit · 11/11/2010 14:21

I think Miranda Hart is in the unfortunate position that if she allows herself to make angry or political points she will be seen as a young Jo Brand... and the BBC have only got room for one token, normal, funny woman.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/11/2010 14:28

Yes how true pip. "Women, we've got one!"

SSM:

"sorry you were offended but you are wrong"

"light-hearted piece"

"playing on popular culture stereotypes of men and women"

"it complies with the BBC code of conduct point 3.714b and had A3 planning consent"

becstarlitsea · 11/11/2010 14:56

I watched on i-player through my fingers... And have complained to BBC.

I think it's also worth complaining to the regulator, Ofcom, here:

stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/specific-programme-epg

and quoting the Ofcom broadcasting code point 2.3 (my highlights below, you can read the whole thing on their site).

2.3 In applying generally accepted standards broadcasters must ensure that material which may cause offence is justified by the context (see meaning of "context" below). Such material may include, but is not limited to, offensive language, violence, sex, sexual violence, humiliation, distress, violation of human dignity, discriminatory treatment or language (for example on the grounds of age, disability, gender, race, religion, beliefs and sexual orientation). Appropriate information should also be broadcast where it would assist in avoiding or minimising offence.

I can't see how the context of 'The One Show' justifies the sexism in that article...

sethstarkaddersmum · 11/11/2010 14:59

good thinking re Ofcom Bec.

AliceWorld · 11/11/2010 15:11

LOL A3 planning consent

Sakura · 12/11/2010 05:23
Grin
sethstarkaddersmum · 12/11/2010 17:47

rofl @ A3 planning consent....

AliceWorld · 24/11/2010 19:28

Got a reply. Of course we all know women can't be sexist so that's just dandy then Hmm

Mind you they do concede they could have done with a longer discussion. (Where's the straw...)

"Thanks for contacting us regarding ?The One Show? broadcast on the 10 November.

"We raised your concerns with ?The One Show? team who replied as follows:

?We are sorry to hear you were unhappy with The One Show?s item on ?Female Finance?. The focus of the report was on how women manage the money they earn rather than exploring the gender pay gap or the discriminatory influences at play on women?s income. We certainly did not set out to perpetuate any stereotypes and apologise if the item was interpreted as such. Our intention was to report the findings - and explore the implications - of recent empirical research by both industry and academia. Amongst other things, this research showed the percentage of women being declared insolvent has risen by 28% this year (compared to 8% in men) and that almost half of women don?t have a pension. This seemed to the production team a compelling reason to look at how women can take better control of their finances.

"From the off, the team were conscious of the need to ensure the film was not sexist, rather it was to be a piece that reflected of credible, evaluated evidence. We quoted research from, variously, The Insolvency Service, ICM, Barings Bank and the University of Hertfordshire and ensured that the statistics quoted were clearly sourced. We used onscreen graphics to give the date and source of the research, and in the case of the research published by the University of Hertfordshire, the basis of the methodology also.

"Whenever any of the content risked supporting a stereotypical image of women, our reporter, Anita Rani, challenged such clichés. Indeed, she opened the piece by saying:

"?I for one am not buying the idea that women are worse with money than men?.

"We represented opinions and experiences from different members of the public, all women. The four interviewed in a Brighton cafe described their own real life stories and the production team did not seek to influence these contributors in any way. The anonymous headlines handwritten on white boards were genuine statements from a cross section of women. The views expressed by the interviewee Simone Gnessen were her own, and based on published academic research she carried out at the University of Hertfordshire.

"Ms Gnessen has been advising and coaching clients on their finances for over 18 years. In her experience of coaching women, she says all her client?s financial problems have been within their own control. Interestingly, it was a predominantly female team who pushed for this story to be told. All agreed it was important to address this subject and let women who need help know there are financial advice centres who can provide advice specifically tailored for women.

"Further, in defending any allegations of sexism, it?s important to emphasise the film was presented by a woman and that the expert and contributors were also women, and that all the opinions and experiences contained therein were those of women.

"We?re aware statistics showing women are more prone to emotional spending makes uncomfortable listening. However it would be wrong to ignore credible evidence. While we recognise most women are in control of their saving and spending, we do not think it is helpful to disregard facts such as ?4 million women have built up £13 billion of debt? (ICM/Barings) or ?36% of women say they spend more than they can afford.? (University of Hertfordshire).

"The item set out to cover a complicated issue in just a few minutes of air-time. We acknowledge it would have benefited from a more detailed and wide-ranging discussion in the studio and, therefore, we must apologise if you felt let down by the programme.?

"Thanks again for getting in touch.

"Kind Regards

"BBC Audience Services"

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