Are any of you radical feminists?

[Jazzicatz]

I would consider myself a radical feminist. I was told yesterday that the logical conclusion to radical feminism is lesbianism and seperatism! I am not in agreement, but would love to know your opinions.

I used to identify as a radical lesbian feminist. Still do, sort of, though these days I'm much older, tireder and kinder than I used to be.

bet he wouldn't defend the freedom of speech of a racist, lenin.

I think capitalism is problematic for radical feminism, not necessarily for liberal though.

Free speech is a shit defence against hate speech. What a twat.

If radical feminism is incompatible with capitalism, then the economic system would have to be changed in a radical way to end patriarchy. So a radical feminist framework would also be a specific economic framework.

In fact, I find it hard to see how you can try to resolve the problems women have without situating it within an economic framework.

What pisses me off, is that every other hate speak is actually illegal.

Only hate-speak against women is OK.

I think either all hate speak should be legal, or none.

You don't have free speech in a seminar anyway. If I went into a tutorial on the migration of birds and started talking about how the moon was made of cream cheese, I would be told to stop talking about something that was both irrelevant to the seminar and wrong. It is up to the lecturer to say what is and is not to be discussed and in what way. Universities have guidelines about inclusive language and so on as well.

Exactly Milly.

That's why tinkering at the edges will never work. If you leave patriarchy in place, the tinkering will be ineffective, because the attack on women will simply come from a different direction. So you have to get rid of patriarchy. And I'm not sure capitalism can survive without patriarchy, it is one of the things which came out of it (although it is quite an adaptable and creative ideology, who knows, perhaps it could adapt to a non-patriarchal context. But I doubt it. That's why capitalism has always opposed feminism.)

Oh, I hate that argument about freedom of speech. In my experience it is closely related to the argument: 'Yes, I am bullying you, but you wanted to be treated like the men and men can take a little bullying'.

Lovely.

Exactly LRP.

It's on a par with "well you wanted to be equal, so why should I give you a seat on the train when you are pregnant/ you wanted sexual liberation, so shave your pubes and let me come on your face/ get out of my way on a sinking ship, I'm bigger and stronger than you and you wanted equality, so fight your way through the six foot brawny men, under 5ft woman, or drown".

Hey Lenin I bet 20 years ago we would have been arguing at some conference about whether radical feminism or socialist feminism was the true path forward. Whereas now, I suspect our different paths have led us to pretty much the same place.

I don't know how I would describe myself but I am certainly one of the most outspoken feminist women in my peer group. However, compared to other feminists I know, I am not that radical.

I used to fairly open-minded about the sex trade, for example, but the more I know about it, the more against it I am (and I am including lap dancing clubs in that definition). I used to be ambivalent about porn but, again, the more I know about the industry, the more against it I am.

However, I am also a bit of a wuss too, and I have long hair and wear make up and 'girlie' things, all of which makes me feel a little guilty because I am pandering to received notions of femininity. And I happen to find men attractive....

I am fairly new to active feminism (I am ashamed to admit) and am consequently still learning.

However, I do struggle with anyone who calls herself a feminist and yet supports the lapdancing, prostitution and porn industry. To me, the two just do not compute!

I find the level of academic discussion on these threads really educating. I am learning a lot!

JessInAvalon, I could have written everything you just did. My own understanding of feminism has developed just like yours, although I have always had a feminist streak in me since childhood, as I have always been brought up to believe that I can pursue my career of choice and that I am just as important as a man.

I think a lot of these sorts of debates really hinge on definitions. Dittany knows a lot about this. Personally, I would consider myself a radical feminist because I truly believe that the nuclear family set-up prevalent in the west perpetuates women's second-class status. As a single parent in a community where I know many married parents and many other single parents, I have clearly observed that it is the quality of the parenting that matters most to the outcome of the child, not the married status of the mother. I would love to see a recognition of all types of family set-up, not just the conventional. A group of three like-minded, committed friends (male, female or mix of both) can provide a much more stable upbringing for young children than a unhappy married couple IMO.

I am really interested in the debate about feminism and capitalism. Can anyone recommend a book on this by the way? I can see why the immediate response is to assume that they cannot work together as capitalism has to place an economic value on means of production and end product. However, I would like to explore how we can apply an economic value to child-rearing, as without it the whole society would collapse. As we now live in a service based economy, rather than a manufacturing one, can't we tweak the ideology? I ask this because although I am lefty by instinct, i am not a true socialist. I believe in equality of opportunity (give all children ? rich, poor, female, male ? the same standard of education, provide free health care for all etc) but I believe that even with a level playing field some people 'deserve' more than others. There will always be lazy gits whose basic humanity means they deserve decent accommodation, free health care, and a reasonable standard of living, but they should not receive the same as someone who works hard (be that in an office, raising a family or caring in the community). I think it is our notion of 'value' that needs to change, not necessarily the basic idea of rewarding greater output (value).

Interesting post.

Thanks Dittany. I'll get hold of a copy.

Thanks all for your replies. My PhD supervisor is a marxist and when he talks about economics, he is not just referring to capitalism, but materialism generally. He said that by revolutionising the economic state that would lead to equality. I just dont agree, but I got so cross with his dismissive arrogant attitude that I lost the plot and asked that we don't discuss it due to the fact I was furious!

Was that a central tenet of argument then too Leningrad?