Why do children get the father's surname?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Where two parents have different surnames, it still seems to be the norm that children are given the man's surname - why is this?

I'm not saying that they should get the mother's surname, but it seems odd that dadsurname is the "default", especially given that if the relationship breaks up, they're far more likely to end up with their mum.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

I'm not convinced by the Margaret Mead reason - as someone mentioned on the other thread, having the same name doesn't in any way prove paternity. Also it's a bit weird to me that someone needs to have their children walking around with that supposed proof or label/signal. If a man wants his children and everyone else to know he's their true father, surely the best way is to be actively involved in their day-to-day lives, rather than just label them with his name and think 'job done'. That's what makes someone a real parent - the biological connection (or lack of it), while it is obviously important to some people, is to me a private matter, not something that needs to be advertised to the world in general.

I'm a bit inclined to say that the (birth) mother should be the one to choose, since she's the one who did all the work of pregnancy and birth. DP and I will probably just agree something like 'a girl gets his name, a boy gets mine' as neither of us have particularly strong feelings about it. Or since his surname works as a boy's name (and has a couple of feminine forms for a girl) we could use that as a first name, with my surname. This might be a little confusing though...

When I married DH I kept my own surname. DD is 'Firstname Middlename Mysurname DH's surname'.

We didn't want a double-barrelled surname for her but I wanted my surname in there too. I suppose it's almost like she has 2 surnames without a hyphen, although technically she has 2 middle names and her 'username' is Firstname DHsurname.

This placated me until I realised that willy nilly, places like our GP just miss out her 3rd name (my surname)!! I get prescriptions for Firstname Middlename DHsurname, which surely legally is not my daughter?

DH now tells me this is what usually happens, being a 2 middle name person himself that banks, etc. only acknowledge one middle name. Now he tells me!

V. annoyed. I would have missed out her first middle name if I'd known this was normal practise. Or given her my surname...

that is very annoying.

You can insist on them using both middle names.
however, i think i would insist that her surname is yoursurname DHssurname. it doesn't have to have a hyphen to be a proper surname, and they can't take it off.

nickelbabe I might just do that. DD's names are quite short (thought it only fair as she was getting 4 of them!).

Poor kid, she's also been lumbered with a perfectly serviceable first name that is bizarrely often mispronounced - not because I have given her some ridiculous spelling by the way, but because people don't listen to the basic difference between vowels.

Aaaargh!

really nosy as to what it is now! Naomi?

Don't know why we do it this way but I like the Spanish system. It is slightly fairer, though still patriarchal.

Everyone in Spain has 2 surnames.

Señor Escudero Rodriguez marries Señora Egea Matos.

They both keep their own names.

Their kids take the first surname of each parent (normaly father´s first, mother´s second);

Escudero Egea.

Alternatively, the viking naming system has always fascinated me. Icelanders still use this I believe. Every child just takes the name of their father and add on a ´son´ or ´daughter´ (dottir) on the end; ie peter´s son=peterson.

Having been born in spain my DS automatically got given both mine and my then DH surname. You would not believe the odd looks i get when I try to use his full name! People seem to get really confused especially as it isn't meant to be a double barrel ie with a hyphen. My XH was African so the receptionist at the docs always panics when I try to make an appointment for him. ("er! how do you spell that?")LOL

I can never make my mind up on this, I was never particularly attached to my father's surname? My Dad actually had both his parent's names, because they weren't married when he was born, which I quite like - though I couldn't be bothered with a double barrel name because dh and I have both got long surnames.

I think in Pictish society children had their mother's name - which I like the idea of, but obviously I don't know the name of my ancestral Pictish gran, if you take your mother's name the name would never change for generations? I like the continuity of that.

I cannot see the difference between keeping my father's name or my husband's name neither appeal to me.

Maybe there should be a mass reclaiming of granny/great-granny/as far back as you can get names. I have an Irish lady a few generations back named Hart, that would certainly make writing my name a lot quicker.

I've flirted with the idea of taking a previous family name (although can't get very far back down the matrilineal line, so possibly just the one I like best ) but shy away from it for the same basic reason I didn't change my name on marriage -- my name is mine, it's the name I've done everything in life with, the name I first learned to write, the name I did all my exams under, the name everyone knows me by. The fact that I share it with [insert name of relative here] is a detail. I don't want to lose my name in favour of another one, much as I might wish that I personally had been given another name or that the naming system in this country was different.

exactly my sentiment Professor.

Dh wanted to take my surname when we married & I still use my maiden name professionally

The dcs have both our surnames, I assumed we'd eventually drop one but both dh & the dcs really like it.

I've always been baffled when women give thier children the father's name.

But I think the reason's to do with what someone said about babies conceived from flings vs long term relationships. Getting pregnant from a fling suggests a certain level of promiscuity (to some people, not me). So maybe women think that if their children have their name people will think they were liberated slutty. Hence the giving of the man's name to give an air (even if false) of 'we were as good as married'.

My DSs have DH name as I took it when we married. In my country, the tradition is firstname, father's name (as middle name), grandfather's name (as surname). Regardless of whether you are a boy or a girl! Which means the kids don't have the same surname as either the mother or the father.

So, I kept my father's name as middle name and took DH's surname.

Now DSs have their first name, DH first name (as middle name) and DH surname.

BIL and SIL want to double barrel the kids, with her surname first for a girl and his surname first for a boy. But I think it'd be nicer for all the children to have the same surname.

i always thought that it was because a woman's offspring are usually unquestionably hers, whilst men can't be so sure of others (as if a name guarantees paternity, haha)

it's a stupid system anyway

we've hyphenated ours (so i'm Ms X, hubby is Mr Y and ours are Ms X-Y and Mr X-Y... they can knock off bits when they get married, keep them, take the nice bits only, don't care really).

we did think about changing both mine and H's name to hyphenated at the wedding, but apparently he couldn't do it (it would have to be an official name change outside of the ceremony). seemed crap so we didn't bother

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrilineal

I'm aware of that thanks David, although interesting to read more as always. But if I said to most people now that we lived in a "patrilineal" society they would probably laugh in my face.

I certainly don't feel any more connected to my father's family than my mother's. Yet the tradition - mainly - continues. So, why?

My DD has both our surnames, hyphenated. Lots of her friends have both her parents' surnames. It really is up to the parents concerned, you know! (in enlightened countries like the UK and France)

I find it strange that there are such differences across Europe - I would have imagined that what happened here would be the same as in Germany for eg.

Why is that I wonder. Anyone? We're all mixed up from similar stock and been communicating for millennia and are basically christian - what's going on there then? If it's your basic patriarchy/ownership etc then how come places so nearby are including the mothers name?

I have 2 kids different dads. They both have their dads names....why ?? - because I dislike my sir name.

OH and I had a discussion today about which of our surnames to give the (as yet hypothetical) children.

He suggested we have an arm wrestle and the winner decides.

I suggested that, instead of an arm wrestle, why don't we see who can push said child through one of their orifices first and let the winner of that event decide the name.

:o :o :o Quodlibet. Hate to see him try.

As and when OH and I marry I intend to keep my name (even the phrasing of that sentence annoys me, it?s MY name why should I have to justify not wanting to change it)
Re: Children we have always agreed to go double barrelled.

As for Fitz didn?t that mean that you were the acknowledged illegitimate child of royalty?

On the whole historical thing of children having their fathers surname to indicate that they belong to him I have always found that, well funny, the same with inheritance laws. I mean until recently the only biological parent you could ?prove? was your mother so if you wanted to keep things in the family to be sure surely it should have gone down the female line?????mmmmmmmmm just one of those things I muse about.

where I come from you get a surname from mum and one from dad

I changed my name upon marriage because I load my father and wanted to erase his name from mine, this was the easiest way.

my daughter got my mother's surname, which I also have and dh's