Let's talk about cognitive dissonance ...

[colditz]

My relationship with my children's father broke up because he lied about money and hit me, and I finally, after many years of misery, refused to tolerate it. But why did I tolerate it for as long as I did when I was miserable?

I believed that children need their parents to stay together and that I would not cope alone. The facts were that children do not need one parent to be abusing the other, and that my life would have been easier without him merrily fucking it up.

The stress caused by the gap between my own personal beliefs and the reality of my situation was causing an uncomfortable feeling, often described as cognitive dissonance.

Is this the reason that people who consider themselves fair minded nevertheless perpetuate an unfair system? Intelligent women who do all the housework and childcare 'because he goes to work' must see the difference between theirs and their husband's exhaustion levels - why do they accept it, and decide that 'going out to work is really hard' when they surely must remeber the time when they went out to work and had no home responsibilities as being a darned sight easier than the life they live now?

I think it's bcause cognitive dissonance is a very uncomfortable state of being, and if you cannot change your situation, you must change your way of thinking to bring it in line with your situation or suffer the misery of inner conflict.

Which brings me to the rejection of feminism.

Why do so many women reject feminism when it would clearly improve their lot to be treated fairly?

Is it because they cannot easily become fairly treated individuals, not without huge conflict and arguments in their home and at work, so they decide, unconsciously, to believe that they are already treated fairly? And therefore feminism is defunct in their minds.

Intersting.

.

Sakura, I haven't read Wifework (yet) would you mind briefly listing some tasks that are considered wifework? I have a pretty fair idea but there are probably ones I haven't considered.

Footlong, I really, really don't want you coming on here and using my situation as some sort of "Gotcha" to everyone else.

There can be no question that Sakura works a damned sight harder at home than my dh does - and when I was a SAHM with little children I worked a lot harder than my dh does now. There is no way that Sakura is lazy.

I think Beachcomber has hit the nail on the head - despite dh being at home, I still do a lot of the thinking and that definitely causes resentment.

At the beginning I was very controlling (or guiding ) and did tell him what to wash when and I would point out if that if the ironing wasn't done there would no uniform for school the next day. This was mostly because he had never had to think about it and I couldn't face any disasters like no pants for the children. Occasionally I did the ironing myself but I soon stopped that as he would quite happily have let me do it.

I "guide" much less now in that regard and let him cope with the fall-out . I need to do this with other things too, though.

I'm hoping that if I can let go a bit more of the thinking then I will resent the mess a bit less. His standards are pretty low, though - he will never be a super-cleaner!

You know this discussion has been very interesting and has helped me pin-point what I am cross about. So thank you folks!

'You are your own worst enemy in the fight for credibility.'

Nobody here is fighting for credibility, FL. You can take what you are reading here or leave it.

Maybe your name reflects your own fight for credibility though?

Caoimhe -- the organisational aspect of running a home and keeping everything ticking over is a huge part of it. I remember feeling really, really annoyed at my mum for calling me in the hospital the morning after having DC4 to ask what she should cook for H and the other 3 DCs for dinner that night. She had come to help, but it's not really helpful to be so lacking in initiative as I found out.

My username has nothing to do with my penis. Hoepfully this clarification will calm you down.

I got your post removed, stop attacking Sakura.

I know you did.. the first clue being when you said you had reported it..... but thanks Captain Obvious.

There can be no question that Sakura works a damned sight harder at home than my dh does

This just gets better and better! You are showing the exact attitude that gets working husbands attacked on here. Yet because you are a female it is being validated by the others.

It is almost the antithesis of scientific reasoning.

1/ Come up with a theory.
2/ Go to people guranteed to agree with your theory.
3/Get there agreement.
4/ State it as fact.

Footlong do you have any comment about the differing expectations of the standard of housework when done by men, versus when it's done by women?

I think gender has nothing to do with it. I know woman who have lower standards than their husbands, and vice versa.

actually, i think people told caoimhe that she shouldn't take her dh's work for granted, whilst agreeing that being the main planner was still carrying on some of the 'woman work'. she came on asking for genuine opinions, and admitting a tendancy to criticise - had she been arrogant about her right to boss her dh around & expect him to slave for her, i'm sure she would have received a slating.

Yes it was very noticeable that she didn't declare that her DH's life was easy and that he is lazy.

had she been arrogant about her right to boss her dh around & expect him to slave for her, i'm sure she would have received a slating.

Ahh ok.. so thats what it will take for a woman to be slated for double standards around here... ok

Yes it was very noticeable that she didn't declare that her DH's life was easy and that he is lazy.

It was also noticeable she didnt say the moon was made of cheese.. whats your point?

actually, i think people told caoimhe that she shouldn't take her dh's work for granted

Quite right, some did..... and some didnt. I thought it clear my comments were directed at the ones who didnt. Maybe I need to be more clear next time.

i was thinking about these issues irt friends of mine - a female couple. neither of them work atm (they have enough money to support themselves with occasional work) but they still occasionally have domestic spats. for them, it's not really a feminist issue, purely domestic.

so why is it such a big issue to feminists?

because we live in a patriarchal society, that's why. if there was an even gender split between sahp & wohp, then it would just be about individual families finding their own balance of work/home type things. it's because society is set up to make certain decisions 'logical' that it ends up being the woman that stays at home.

Footlong, I thank you for attributing all the research to me, but I feel I must burst your bubble. Thousands of other researchers, sociologists and theorists reached these conclusions before me. Sorry to burst your bubble

*mathsanxiety" Maybe your name reflects your own fight for credibility though?

LOL!

wifework:
The sort of things Caohime is talking about, the thinking the emotional support. PReparing meals, for example, is patriarchal. If a woman's husband is away on business (and this is true in my house) and you ask her what she's making for dinner, the answer will be "Who knows? Who cares ? " Because women will eat what the kids have left over, or make herself a light sandwich or snack. A man will require some sort of meat, prepared in a hot meal, otherwise it's "rabbit food" or not classed as a meal. Those types of things. Now, I don't mind making meals for my DH, but now that I know what's going on, it helps me a lot. And to see that having a husband actually creates work. NOw we share the dinner more equally in my house. HE cooks most meals at weekends. ( I think eating out is cheating, but we do it a lot)

Footlong, I thank you for attributing all the research to me, but I feel I must burst your bubble. Thousands of other researchers, sociologists and theorists reached these conclusions before me. Sorry to burst your bubble

What are you talking about? Actually dont bother, presently I am not remotely interested in anything you have to say, it is just bitter rubbish.

I do wonder if the generalisations help.
"A man will require some sort of meat, prepared in a hot meal, otherwise it's "rabbit food" or not classed as a meal".
If we keep saying this doesn't it buy into and actually reinforce the status quo?
Why can't we say "preparing meals may be patriarchal"?? Or "in a lot of households preparing meals is patriarchal?"

I do know men like this,yes - but DH isn't and my Dad wasn't.(not perfect,just without this particular flaw...)
And if I'm honest,I sometimes come home when I've been at work and DH is cooking,look at what he is making and think "that's not a proper meal" OK,we aren't normal ,but this whole men are like this,women are like that bit does irritate me.I'm not denying male privilege etc - I know it's there,but the generalisations just make me want to jump up and down saying "what about the menz..."!

Two friends of mine got married and I had this conversation with her,with her saying that she needed to get home to cook.When I asked her why her DH didn't cook she said he never cooked,almost implying he couldn't.This was a guy who had been known for his dinner parties,when he was single.Why? Why do people do it?

Hmmm...but I'd never noticed that until I started analyzing it. I mean, it never even crossed my mind that the reason I was making meaty or 'substantial' meals of an evening was because I had a husband.

In my case, the generalisation is true, but noone ever draws attention to these things (except feminists). I'm sure it's not the case in every family, but it helped my marriage to know about it. Does DH want to be in a relationship with someone who breathes an inner sigh of relief that he's coming home late and eating out? Probably not, so it's good that the issue got an airing in our case.

It's probably just me ....
I think partly it is that I've been getting stroppy about this sort of thing for years and years,so take it as read.It is sad actually - this is what I believed when I was a teenager,which was ,well,a while ago now....and sometimes it seems that nothing has changed at all since then.

But generalisations bug me anyway,I hate sex stereotyping - I expect I need to take a deep breath and tell myself it can be a useful tool to aid thought!

Must go

It is useful, because in many cases men don't want to abuse their privilege. Some men, OTOH, [a prime example on this thread] exhibit what Dworkin calls "a steadfast refusal to see ". Women have it too. IT's cognitive dissonance. Sometimes a little guide like Wifework can help you see if your marriage is worth fighting for or if the house of cards is about to come tumbling down