Let's talk about cognitive dissonance ...

[colditz]

My relationship with my children's father broke up because he lied about money and hit me, and I finally, after many years of misery, refused to tolerate it. But why did I tolerate it for as long as I did when I was miserable?

I believed that children need their parents to stay together and that I would not cope alone. The facts were that children do not need one parent to be abusing the other, and that my life would have been easier without him merrily fucking it up.

The stress caused by the gap between my own personal beliefs and the reality of my situation was causing an uncomfortable feeling, often described as cognitive dissonance.

Is this the reason that people who consider themselves fair minded nevertheless perpetuate an unfair system? Intelligent women who do all the housework and childcare 'because he goes to work' must see the difference between theirs and their husband's exhaustion levels - why do they accept it, and decide that 'going out to work is really hard' when they surely must remeber the time when they went out to work and had no home responsibilities as being a darned sight easier than the life they live now?

I think it's bcause cognitive dissonance is a very uncomfortable state of being, and if you cannot change your situation, you must change your way of thinking to bring it in line with your situation or suffer the misery of inner conflict.

Which brings me to the rejection of feminism.

Why do so many women reject feminism when it would clearly improve their lot to be treated fairly?

Is it because they cannot easily become fairly treated individuals, not without huge conflict and arguments in their home and at work, so they decide, unconsciously, to believe that they are already treated fairly? And therefore feminism is defunct in their minds.

Intersting.

that's interesting, and reassuring. The media treats the menopause like a curse, as though there is no worse thing that can happen to a woman

Yes, but it's so wrong...It's liberating and empowering.

I know many women have terrible affects from the menopause, and I was very, very lucky that I had nothing at all really.

But now I feel as ambitious and as full of energy as I did when I was 18.

In fact it's a million times better now as I am no longer controlled by anyone, and have some self-esteem at last.

THe only downside is it's impossible to lose any weight now!

Maybe that's why middle-aged women are despised by the media, even more than mothers, if that's possible. Because they are probably the most powerful section of women in society: liberated from child-care, liberated from all those stupid love hormones, had their children so are not looking for a man, economically powerful compared to their younger sisters...the list just goes on. As a result they appear in no films- there are almost no publicly celebrated middle-aged female role-models. I don't think it's a coincidence

That's certainly true. Certainly my peers are not going to go away and fade into the background.

We all have much more money than we ever had as younger women. We have bright colours in our hair. Many of my friends are self-employed and run very good businesses. We travel, we take risks, we are healthy (thank god), our brains are quick, we have left our husbands!!!!

We have everything to look forward to. We are modelling a different kind of middle-age for our sons and daughters.

We no longer suffer from cognitive dissonance!

Of course there are downsides...I lost many of my coupled-up friends when I left my exH. But I can go and find new friends!

There is so much to look forward to.

So funny that through society's lens a middle-aged single woman is pitied, when the truth is so far from that. It's hard not to believe it's a conspiracy isn't it, that it's another strand of the Big Lie

God yeah. I've said this before, but make no apology for saying it again: when XH was trying (very clumsily) to make me reconsider, he warned me "You'll end up like your sister!" Let's see... she was, at the time, mid-40s with a job that paid 50% more than mine, nice little house, decent car that actually worked, a friend who popped in to clean house for pin money, a couple of active hobbies, a circle of friends who'd do anything for her as she would for them, and occasional sex with old friends or passing attractive people. Would you like to explain what's not to like? "Ah, but they're only using her." Nowadays she's still got all that plus a steady boyfriend who worships her and, being in the music trade, fulfils her cultural needs as well. That I should get a chance to be "used" in such a way.

Ha! Apart from the cleaner and the sex (sadly), that's me!

Middle-aged women rock!

They certainly rock much more than do middle-sged men. If you look on the dating sites , in particular the ones aimed at over-50s, the women all look fabulous have bags of energy, are getting out there and grasping the world by the horns.

The men, with a very, very few exceptions, are heading for their dotage and want a housekeeper with benefits.

When I see my MIL and FIL it's shocking to see how much more energy women in their sixties have compared to men of the same age. MIL has got more energy than me, now that she's got no kids

Oh dear please ignore the silly parts of last nights message! To Sakura maybe it is that your husband is not the right man for you. You are still young and if it does come to it you can meet someone more suited to you or be single. Being married can be as interesting and as exciting as being single. I dont see anything wrong with having sex with men and my husband with women whilst being married.

I dont realy think marriage means you have to be monogamous really. Still love being married to my husband though as its a laugh but it doesnt mean you have to just be constrained to each other. My life hasnt really changed much since before I had kids but mainly that is to do with my husband and all the grandparents so havent stopped going out or going on holidays/trips on my own a lot. Anyway apologies to who I offended.

Sunny, I don't think your posts are offensive as such, just becoming a little tedious. SO you have a wonderful life, well that's great for you. But you have now informed us all of that in far more detail than we needed. Enjoy your life, but unless you have any actual advice to offer (other than My life is great because I'm so clever and special I made all the right choices) maybe you'd like to find another discussion now?

Anniegetyourgun, your sister's life sounds lovely. I don't dread getting older now. We are so conditioned to DREAD it, and I think when I was 38ish, I suddenly thought, hang on, does it matter?? Every year older is another year towards independence, tiny bit more money saved! On my 36th birthday I had a newborn baby and I remember visualising my 40th with a 'big' child who could hold my hand as we just walked along, no buggy. Now he's in school 'til after 3.

I agree that it's ridiculous and kind of suspicious that there are so few women over 45ish but not yet 'grey' out there. They are a threat, because they won't accept bullshit and because they don't NEED to accept bullshit.

YYY about middle aged women not being portrayed in any way in the media except as sad pathetic creatures. It is wonderful to be free, it really is. In the last few months I suddenly realised that I don't need a life partner any more - my kids are 11 and 8 and any man who comes into my life will never really be a father figure, so I can just have a series of diverting lovers who never need to meet my children. However, all the men of my own age haven't got the energy to keep up with me and wildly over-estimate how much they've got to offer and how grateful I'll be.

Solid re your post:"the terrible fear that women will one day all refuse to do the shitwork out of 'love' or fear of abandonment and the men will have to do it themselves"

My concern about that, is will they actually do it themselves? I think as long as the psychology remains the same for men, their solution if all women turned off, would not be to do it themselves, it would be either to force women to do it ? stop using the lie of love and reliance on self-sacrifice, but go back to plain brute force ? or develop a slave class again. It?s absolutely crucial that along with women refusing to do the shit work, we change men?s sense of entitlement, because women refusing to do it alone won?t solve the problem ? men won?t simply say ?oh, ok we?ll do our fair share then?, they?ll fight tooth and nail not to as long as their sense of entitlement doesn?t change.

(Just as they fight tooth and nail against every other step forward that women make)

That's a very thoughtprovoking post, HerBeatitude.

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HB: Yes I think force might come into it in those circumstances.
In an ideal world it would just be something you could pay someone to do, pay them a fair wage (not less-than-the-minimum) if you don't like doing it. I don't see anything wrong at all with paying people to clean your house as long as you are a fair and courteous employer, just like any other employer - I would never argue that people ought to do shitwork (I do very little housework as I consider it a total waste of time and if I wasn;t broke I would have cleaners) themselves - more that ther needs to be a fairer way of not having to do it, ie paying someone properly, rather than having a slave class and telling them taht they 'lovel their slavery

the thing is, my dh grew up in a household where his mum was NEVER the primary housekeeper. there were quite a few changes, but in his early life it was his gran, then his mum & step dad shared the load, with his older step sister helping out, then his step dad retired (dh was still a child) & did almost all the housework.

yet, still, we have this inbalance. we both, at least verbally, subscribe to the idea of equality, so how has this happened?

we are the classic example of people who have ended up on the wrong hill. the decisions we made have been sensible & practical, and they are not irreversible, but now i'm a disgruntled SAHM, and dh is a disgruntled high pressure worker.

how are we supposed to avoid these situations?

I have spent the day with my parents. They are in their 80's and my dm has a degenerative illness. My df gets up with her in the night, helps her to shower and dress, and (after 55 years) is having to learn to cook. The wonderful thing is that they look at each other with more love in their eyes than I have seen before.

For them now there is no cognitive dissonance. Their individual values (in sickness and in health, till death us do part, etc) are borne out across the timespan of their life. Yet there were times in my dm's life when being a SAHM was not good for her.

You might not be able to avoid them, but once you understand them you might be able to change something?

Previous post was to Kickassangel.

Thanks grannie - avoiding elderly parents is not much possible

venusand mars: Glad your parents still love and appreciate each other so much, even in such difficult circumstances. It sounds as your dad is grateful for everything your mum has done for him in the past 55 years, and she is able to accept his help. What a lovely relationship.

Maybe it's that sense of being in it together, pulling together as a team and knowing that you are loved and valued that is missing from so many of the difficult relationships here.

I never had that. So I decided to go it alone and was much happier, eventually.

venusandmars:

It made me think about the time frame in which we make decisions. I know that when I was about 5 or 6, my dm was unhappy, the 'wife and mother' dream was not enough and she probably didn't feel loved and valued. She went back to work, stuck with it all and I think they have had a genuinely supportive and happy relationship for many, many years.

In my own (first) marriage, I was terribly unhappy and all the (family/society) pressure was to stick with it, work on it, etc. I did for 7 years. And it just got worse, and for a while the dissonance robbed me of myself.

So at what point, and after how long, can we say that a particular situation is causing such stress and distress that we should not stick with it? Over the long term, it has worked out OK for my parents, but maybe she did struggle for 7 years to get there, maybe she 'lost herself' for a while. How can we tell what is low-level compromise and what is genuinely destructive?

If it's always you changes to suit, then it's not compromise.