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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Marks and Spencer support new 'Hooters' in Bristol

1000 replies

JessinAvalon · 10/09/2010 20:23

Dear all
This is my first post on here so I hope I am doing this right!

I live in Bristol and, last week, 'Hooters' was granted a licence to open in the city centre. The site is virtually opposite 3 apartment blocks, the lower floors of which are social housing and children are living in them.

What's most disappointing is that Marks and Spencer are leasing the site to 'Hooters'. They have been e-mailed by many concerned people to ask if they will reconsider leasing the building but they have just replied saying it is a "commercial decision" (as if that makes it ok!). In Sheffield, a 'Hooters' didn't even make it to application stage because the developer (Ask Pizza) realised that it would be better not to be associated with a company like 'Hooters'.

Marks and Spencer don't seem that concerned, however. Although they have signed up to the "Let Girls Be Girls" Mumsnet campaign they are not concerned about a company which sells merchandise including babygros which say "Future Hooters Girl" and "Does my butt look big in this?"

I have written to Marks and Spencer telling them that I won't be shopping in their stores again. If you feel strongly about this, please e-mail:

[email protected].

'Hooters' tries to sell itself as a family friendly restaurant but it is anything but. The Hooters in Nottingham attracts mainly stag parties and football fans. Hooters Girls take part in bikini contests and iced wet t-shirt competitions (the t-shirts are put in the freezers before the girls wear them). 'Hooters' has links to Playboy magazine....I could go on.....

I think Marks and Spencer should be shamed for facilitating this company's expansion into Bristol. They are selling women and girls down the river by leasing to this company and all just to make a "quick buck".

Thanks everyone.

OP posts:
PacificDogwood · 12/09/2010 19:24

Got the same standard reply as everybody else, grr!

Does anyone know what 'restaurants' Gallus Restaurants run other than Hooters?

Re planning applications: AFAIK they are a public record so anyone should be able to access them, non? I am quite far away from Bristol but my town is on the list, so I will make further enquiries here.

I so hope M+S HQ are quivering in their boots!!

PosieParker · 12/09/2010 19:26

I posted the link on FB and one of my more educated friends replied after one had said 'stupid women to work there' and then I said they were too easy a target 'Hooters' are the exploiters.....

Are they exploiters though? They are not forcing woman to go and work there, not dragging them in from the streets, these woman could get jobs in reg bars but choose not to. Some people like these kinds of places and just because its not your scene or indeed mine it doesn't make them wrong. Its just a difference of opinion. I am against Hooters not because of the topless part but because it will make that part of town even tackier.

TheCrackFox · 12/09/2010 19:29

I got the standard response letter too. Maybe Sir Rose doesn't work weekend?

JessinAvalon · 12/09/2010 20:02

In terms of licence/planning applications, you need to keep an eye out because, if you miss the deadline for objections (as happened in Bristol) then it's likely that it will go through.

We didn't know about it in Bristol because there was no reference to it in the application. That's what they're doing - sneaking it through to avoid bad publicity.

You need to get your objections in before the deadline as only then will you be allowed to speak at the licence or planning committee hearing. Here in Bristol, around 20 people turned up for the licence committee hearing, even though they couldn't object and funnily enough, the meeting was delayed by one hour, then by two, until most of those there had to leave. Nothing gets in the way of a councillor and his sandwiches, you know!

It is a shame that women want to work there and visit it too. I have had so many women telling me that it's empowering and that it's ironic. I just see them as having bought into the rhetoric and I don't fall for it at all. I wonder how empowered they'll be when they are asked to leave because they are too old or too big to fit into the "petite" sized uniforms.

Apparently they don't have height or weight requirements, but they do have 'uniform requirements'.

Hooters waitress sues for being told to lose weight

As for strip clubs, well, I guess that's a whole other debate. I was ambivalent about them too until my ex-boyfriend went to one on my brother's stag night. 6 men (including my 2 brothers and my boyfriend) sat in a small room around a podium whilst a naked, shaved 19 year old girl danced naked for them for about 20 minutes. And everyone, including my mum, told me it was just a laugh.

When I expressed my upset to my boyfriend, he told me that "I was just jealous because other women have better bodies than me". I was angry but thought that he wouldn't be paying other women to take their clothes off if I was "good enough". I was 32, a size 8, and 5'7" but started looking into cosmetic surgery and lost half a stone, and took up pole dancing lessons. After about 3 or 4 months, when I realised that he was doing absolutely nothing to keep himself looking good for me, I came to my senses. It affected me a lot though and I've been against them ever since.

I've got a good job, I'm independent, and I fell for all that stuff. It affected me a lot and I am just grateful that it's not something that was so mainstream when I was a teenager otherwise I think I would have huge self-esteem issues now. In the end, I kicked the boyfriend out and I wouldn't go out with anyone who frequented strip clubs. The idea of those men all sat round a girl nearly half their age makes me feel physically sick. Their argument is that she chose to be there but I know that, if my brothers had walked in and seen me on a podium, they would have dragged me out of there straightaway.

I find it worrying that so many men that I know, professionals in the public sector, think it's perfectly ok to visits lap dancing clubs without their wives knowing. And that's even become passe. In the last place I worked, trips to the red light district in Amsterdam were the thing to do now because "it didn't mean anything", "she chooses to do it", and "you've got to try it sometime" etc etc.

I find places like Hooters and lap dancing clubs all on a spectrum. Men and women being given the impression that it's ok to objectify women and, if you're a woman, that it's ok to be objectified. I'm just glad that I'm not a teenage girl now and that my formative years where when grunge was in!

Rant over....

OP posts:
PussinJimmyChoos · 12/09/2010 21:19

Oooh Mnet replied to my thread on site stuff and asking the campaigns team to look into it wrt to M&S and the Let Girls be Girls campaign

This just isn't protesting...its Mumsnet protesting Grin

LeninGrad · 12/09/2010 21:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PussinJimmyChoos · 12/09/2010 21:46

Excellent Smile

TessOfTheBurbs · 12/09/2010 21:58

I never understand the "it's a laugh" defence. Is it funny, or is it sexy? It seems like society has a skewed, unhealthy definition of sexy, meaning full of bravado and one-upmanship. If I wanted naked men to gyrate in front of me, I sure as hell wouldn't a gang of mates and a bucket of popcorn there. I don't like the idea of men paying to go and be turned on by a lapdancer, but I think I like the idea even less that men go to these places "for a laugh". Watching some poor hairless woman pole-dance her little heart out so they can sit back and have a good "laugh" with "the boys". It's like they are enjoying excercising their power.

monkeysmama · 12/09/2010 22:06

I have just emailed. Good luck with the campaign.

My secretary at work went there for her hen do. I thought it was one of the saddest things I'd heard in a long time.

themothershipcalling · 12/09/2010 22:10

Oh dear God, am mortified and I actually work for them - well sort of, for the money side.

Will email.

Butkin · 12/09/2010 22:10

Not defending them at all but they are everywhere in the States. I've been in one in Chicago at lunchtime and I was suprised (given it's reputation over here) that it was full of families. I couldn't imagine taking DD in one but it is very main-stream in the States and had a similar customer profile (the time I went in) to a Pizza Hut or TGI Friday.

I've also been to one in Singapore where it was the location for a party thrown by a company I do business with. Again they view it no different to any sort of fast food type outlet.

I don't want to stop you complaining but the ones I've seen have been quite tame really. Yes the girls wear orange hotpants and white T shirts with the Hooters logos but they looked just as ordinary and bored as any other fast food waitresses.

CantStopEatingCheese · 12/09/2010 22:18

I've emailed M&S as well.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 12/09/2010 22:39

Ooh look it's in discussions of the day. :o

aloiseb · 12/09/2010 22:41

Well, this is what I wrote:
(having fought in a local campaign to stop a lap dancing club being created from a quiet Spanish restaurant at the end of my road....which thank God we won. My dd would not be walking to school these days if that club had got permission)

Dear Mr Rose,

I was horrified to read on Mumsnet that Marks and Spencers have made a "commercial decision" in Bristol to lease a restaurant site to the "Hooters" chain, which is hoping to expand into this country from the USA. I had not heard of this restaurant before, and perhaps you are not aware of the appalling way in which this company appear to view their female employees (and by implication, any female who happens to walk past its doors).

For instance, have a look at these reviews for the New York branch:
newyork.citysearch.com/profile/33154515/new_york_ny/hooters.html

Most of the men speaking here have very evidently not gone there for the food!

Do you really want M & S to be seen to be supporting a company which sells its own calendar of pouting women to its patrons? I thought the company was supposed to support more old-fashioned values, after all the publicity for your 125th anniversary last year.

Even though I live nowhere near Bristol, as a mother of a teenage daughter, I will be registering my disgust by taking my custom elsewhere if this decision goes ahead. I have loved your clothes, your homewares and especially your food, but the objectification of women is something that I feel very strongly about.

WhoKnew2010 · 12/09/2010 22:52

Emailed M&S and Bristolians please email your councillors too ...

I'm distraught. How can anyone in their right mind think that this is a commercially sensible decision? Have M&S considered their customer base at all?

Come on MN - let's use the media obsession with this website for good.

What on earth do we say to our daughters and sons when we walk by the restaurant and they ask

TessOfTheBurbs · 12/09/2010 22:53

I followed your link to the New York reviews, aloiseb. I can't believe they're actually reviewing and complaining about the attractiveness of the waitresses!

WHat's with their slogan, "Delightfully tacky yet unrefined"? Why "yet"? Is tacky stuff usually known for being so refined? Am I missing an obvious joke or pun?

curlymama · 12/09/2010 22:57

Ok, you are all going to hate me, I'm ready for the flaming, but I don't get why this is such a huge problem. I really don't.

I can see why lots of people would never want to go into one of these restaurants even if you paid them, and that they are not the sort of place you would ever want to take your children, but I don't see the harm.

Nobody is being forced to go there, and nobody is being forced to work there. Everybody that will be inside one of these place will be there of their own free will. And if it turns out to be really popular, then that will be down to our brothers, husbands, sons, uncles etc. They probably will be full of stag parties and groups of lads, but then those groups will be out somewhere anyway, and the majority of the time they will just be out to have fun without hurting anyone.

Maybe a campaign shouldbe targeted at the people that would go there?

So I'm genuinely asking, why have you got so much against Hooters? Btw, I can understand why lots of you would be upset at the connection with M&S, but even so...

bzzbee · 12/09/2010 23:03

I have also emailed Mr Rose. Am a shareholder too so doubly disgusted and I will be livid when (not if!) I get that stock response.

aloiseb · 12/09/2010 23:04

I think it must be just New York! - they are still back with the 16th century Puritans in some ways, aren't they? As long as the boobs are covered up, it's OK to leer at the waitresses??"*!!??

(After all, in parts of the US you can be arrested for breastfeeding in public, we wouldnt want that sort of disgusting thing going on now would we!)

I also find it hard to believe what the poster in the US alleges, that everyone goes to "Hooters" all over the place in the USA, as a family restaurant, and nobody cares about the blatant sexism going on in the place. Are all women there really so downtrodden?

TessOfTheBurbs · 12/09/2010 23:06

Because it normalises letch-object/paying client relationships and brings it to the hgh street.

You don't have to go there, you don't have to work there and you don't have to take your children there, but it becomes a part of everyday life and therefore it becomes part of the culture you bring your children up in.

I don't think people have to be physically hurt to make something hurtful to our culture, to women and girls, and to male/female relationships in general.

And although people will not be physically forced into Hooters, people will feel pressured to accept it as just a bit of fun. Just like right now many girls are afraid of being called prudes if they object to porn culture.

PixieOnaLeaf · 12/09/2010 23:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

bzzbee · 12/09/2010 23:06

Curlymama and Butkin

they should be criticized for the babygro logos if nothing else....it's sick

TessOfTheBurbs · 12/09/2010 23:06

(in reply to curlymama)

sethstarkaddersmum · 12/09/2010 23:11

it will create a threatening environment in the local area Curlymama - there will be an increase in sexual harassment and sexual assaults around the place, which women who merely want to walk past the place did NOT choose.
There is an impact beyond the restaurant itself; the negative effects are not just limited to the people who choose to go in there.

Why do you think the police in Bristol (IIRC) opposed the application? They don't care about feminism, they just don't want to see an increase in crime.

FrameyMcFrame · 12/09/2010 23:15

so depressed by this Sad

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