Marks and Spencer support new 'Hooters' in Bristol

[JessinAvalon]

Dear all
This is my first post on here so I hope I am doing this right!

I live in Bristol and, last week, 'Hooters' was granted a licence to open in the city centre. The site is virtually opposite 3 apartment blocks, the lower floors of which are social housing and children are living in them.

What's most disappointing is that Marks and Spencer are leasing the site to 'Hooters'. They have been e-mailed by many concerned people to ask if they will reconsider leasing the building but they have just replied saying it is a "commercial decision" (as if that makes it ok!). In Sheffield, a 'Hooters' didn't even make it to application stage because the developer (Ask Pizza) realised that it would be better not to be associated with a company like 'Hooters'.

Marks and Spencer don't seem that concerned, however. Although they have signed up to the "Let Girls Be Girls" Mumsnet campaign they are not concerned about a company which sells merchandise including babygros which say "Future Hooters Girl" and "Does my butt look big in this?"

I have written to Marks and Spencer telling them that I won't be shopping in their stores again. If you feel strongly about this, please e-mail:

[email protected].

'Hooters' tries to sell itself as a family friendly restaurant but it is anything but. The Hooters in Nottingham attracts mainly stag parties and football fans. Hooters Girls take part in bikini contests and iced wet t-shirt competitions (the t-shirts are put in the freezers before the girls wear them). 'Hooters' has links to Playboy magazine....I could go on.....

I think Marks and Spencer should be shamed for facilitating this company's expansion into Bristol. They are selling women and girls down the river by leasing to this company and all just to make a "quick buck".

Thanks everyone.

Am v pleased to report I was talking to a friend this morning who has had his consciousness raised as a result of reading Living Dolls and The Equality Illusion and he is going to write to M&S himself.

(it was brilliant, he was ranting at me about the shocking slogans on children's clothes you see these days.)

I love it when you just put the facts in front of someone and they hop straight on board.

It's great when that happens, isn't it

It happens with men who are intelligent, confident and happy, who are comfortable with their own sexuality and don't need to cling on to the right to dehumanise women in order to make themselves feel adequate.

Really sexy men.

It is great when you speak to a man who is open minded enough to listen, doesn't feel the need to control the conversation or viewpoint and is prepared to consider what it's actually like to live as a woman for 5 minutes!

There's one guy in Bristol who got involved through his partner. He spent some time looking into all these issues and now feels so passionately about it that he comes along and speaks at Council meetings with us. He did a great (and very funny speech) at the last Full Council meeting. (If anyone wants to see it, send me an e-mail or PM me and I can send you a link.) It's also useful having him there because he can't be accused of being a hysterical woman and that means that he can say a lot of the more emotive things that we want to say but steer away from, in case there are councillors whose personal agendas lead them to do exactly as David has done (question evidence, stats etc).

Of course, this amazing man can't understand what it's like to live as a woman and he admits that these issues didn't enter his consciousness before a certain point in time (it came about because the area where he & his partner owned a flat was gradually turning into a sex industry hub and they realised that the women and girls were being treated very badly). However, he has now made the effort to investigate and understand and is nearly as passionate about gender inequality as we are.

I sit next to a guy in work who readily admits that he doesn't "get it". However, I have noticed that he is starting to be conscious of certain language (in others) and certain advertising (e.g. of lap dancing clubs) and how pervasive it is. He's gone from violently disagreeing with me to now occasionally volunteering little snippets of information that show that he's thinking about it all more.

I was on Radio 5 last year discussing the potential inclusion of healthy relationships in schools. The discussion started with what it's like to be in an abusive relationship and why this might be needed. I phoned and was one of the first callers. Within 15 minutes, the conversation had completely swung around to "what about men!" and "all the statistics about domestic violence happening to women are rubbish!" and the next 45 minutes were basically centred around, "it happens to men too!" It's not a competition but many men felt the need to phone in and the conversation got completely derailed from the original topic of why this education might be needed which was predictable, I suppose, but frustrating!

It's sad that some men feel the need to turn against us rather than working with us. It's a little inconsistent to claim not to want to interfere but then to specifically come onto a thread to question the motives, evidence, and point of discussions and a campaign. There are no questions that reveal an underlying interest in why we are doing this, only criticisms as to our methods. I find this kind of behaviour very controlling and more than a little strange.

Perhaps there is a desire to try and assert some kind of intellectual superiority over women? What do we know? We've only lived with being a woman for all our lives!

Perhaps we should take this intrusion as a compliment. If there is a desire to try and impress with intellectual arguments, then we are clearly an audience worth impressing. Otherwise, the 'intruder' would be on The Sun's website, but it seems that they are not a worthy opponent!

I meant to say:

I was on Radio 5 last year discussing the potential inclusion of teaching about healthy relationships in schools.

That's nice :)

I bet they're not the kind of men who lump together people who can't help what they are and don't have the option to opt out of (e.g. women, black people, Asian people, gay people, disabled people) with people who hold a set of beliefs and have the power to change their mind at any time, are they HB? Because they'd never be so obtuse.

You can just bet that if there was a branch of Youranus Family Cafe opening up next to their office, with men wearing clear-backed latex pants, the councillors and others wouldn't listen to people demanding statistics to prove it is harmful. They would be outraged and consider that the fact that it makes them uncomfortable is argument enough. It's always labelled "immoral" in these cases, because traditionally men get to say what is moral and what isn't (historically from pulpits etc).

Hmmm.

How d'you fancy a new business venture Elephants?

It's a Black Hole/Space themed cafe.

Can we get babygros with "It's all about UrAnus" on them? For boys, natch.

Slogan: "Get Your Ass to UrAnus"

Everyone will be served on low tables to ensure the maximum of bending on the part of the exclusively male waiting staff.

OMG I can so see this being done as a protest.

Fit men in tight boxers that are black at the front, transparent at the back, with a tiny planet over the crucial area.

Handing out to leaflets to Families. "Voyage to UrAnus" space themed birthdays.

I love it!!

And the exclusively male waiters would be "UrAnus Boys".

Anyone want to be the first to book their kids' birthday party in there?

Is there a rule on back sack and crack?

And pecs? You lose your job if they start getting less well-defined?

Yes, there should be a minimum pec requirement for the hosts. They would be measured at the job interview.

I think I'll book us in there for Father's Day. I know my Dad would love it. And I think I could arrange my work's Christmas party in there too.

Do you think M&S have a building they'll lease us for our first one in the chain?

Has anyone heard from them, btw? They've been very quiet. Surprising really after 3 national newspaper articles, 1 local article and some international press coverage in the space of 2 days.

I think, HerBeatitude, you're being a bit harsh making them lose their job if they lose some pec definition. I think they should be given 30 days to get themselves sorted out first. Some time at the gym and a diet first to see if they can get back in shape. If not, then they should be shown the door.

Jess - I last heard from them a couple of days ago. Every time they reply, I reply but they are taking longer to reply and saying less. Ball is currently in their court.

Maybe they are working out what to do?

Or maybe they aren't the ethical company I once thought they were...

They're waiting and hoping we go away. Needs another push really ideally into the Times and into BBC, then they'll have to respond.

Wow I'm touched by so much enthusiasm for this little idea.

Now, who's got a buff boyfriend/brother/DH/son who would volunteer?

And who's got a sewing machine?

Pardon?

Anyway, my mum has just emailed M&S. She is a HUGE shopper there, liking them partly because she believes them to be a fairly ethical choice - we both think it is important to keep up pressure on companies to maintain high ethical standards as obviously their 'ethics' are usually not a million miles away from whatever angle they think will give them the strongest position in the market.

Sorry, the pardon was in response to the earlier post from David which I failed to understand.

I thought maybe "sewing machine" was some foul slang that I had accidentally used.

I think you need to post this beyond the Feminism threads - perhaps in Style & Beauty? I'm not sure the wider 'readership' here knows what's going on.

I read a thread earlier today about a woman whose husband was concerned about her post-birth (all kinds of self-esteem issues) and she was talking happily about going off to M&S for new clothes.

I didn't post on that thread, as the OP got a bit of a pasting for her DH's comments/actions - but a comment was made about 'what if she'd posted in the feminism topic'.

and I thought BIWI meant 'nobody in feminism will have a sewing machine, you will need to post in Style and Beauty'

I posted in S&B asking where I could get ethical pants when this whole thing kicked off and no-one replied so I reposted in Ethical Living and got lots of helpful advice. If anyone wants to post it in S&B they need to be feeling thick-skinned....

I have a sewing machine btw, but I have never sewn pants. Or latex.

I am willing to have a go if you can find someone to wear them. I am afraid that recruiting the waiting staff may be where this project flounders. It takes years of conditioning to get someone to value themselves so low as to think working somewhere you have to sign up to be sexually harassed is a good idea.

Yeah, maybe someone called Tim? You know, they go through life from their earliest years hearing their identity used as a byword for "crap" - "you throw like a Tim", "eugh you coward, you're screaming like a Tim" etc.

Might that be a suitable preparation?

hmm, I thought the sewing machines were puzzling enough but now I am really confused.
I either get it (in which case, LOL) or else in the circles in which you move people get laughed at for being called Tim.

anyway, thread is now bumped after a static few hours

yeah sorry was joking! Apologies Tims :)