A Doll's House

[GirlWithTheMouseyHair]

I'm having a month or two of epithanies and have strayed onto this section of mumsnet for the first time today...am utterly fascinated and horrified by some of the threads which have opened my eyes to what and who I am and how I put up with it, accepting both mine and others' behaviour because I am a woman and specifically a wife and mother.

Part of the reason for coming on here is because I'm also a theatre director and will be directing A Doll's House at Christmas. I've always felt it was a feminist text and have ached to direct it for years but not really known how or why and now feels right for me personally and in the wider sense of society.

I was just hoping for some thoughts from people who know it as a play - I want to bring it bang up to date because I honestly believe that Ibsen's issues of women's oppression, emancipation and liberation are as relevant today as they were then, but are now potentially more dangerous because they are hidden under a veneer of respectability or "women can now go to work and have a family, they have CHOICES" when actually they don't, or they do but they still managed to be oppressed by the society they live and and how they themselves run their lives.

The thread about heterosexual relationships was particularly interesting to me - and has made me realise in many ways I act exactly the same as Nora (although I don't have a maid or nanny!)

I feel a bit out of my depth to be honest, trying to formulate my ideas as they come to me, this seems a way of discovering 'myself' in the process.

Interesting that Ibsen has distanced himself from the feminist movement...denied he had that in mind when writing A Doll's House

I've read that too - but stand by my belief that theatre is not just transient but subjective. And that I've worked with several BRILLIANT playwrights who it turns out don't know much about the play they've written after all...that's my job to inteprete it!

But also a but unbelieving about Ibsen...maybe he was distancing himself from 'radical' feminists or didn't like the word, but he was definately writing about the emancipation of women and other oppressed marginals in Western European society

Welcome :) Ibsen had an amazing instinct for subtle oppression - and its proudest achievement, self-oppression. He may not have been thinking about Feminism as he formulated the play (few great works are inspired by polemic) but it is, nonethless, a feminist play. I should think you're going to have fun with this!

Tbh, now you've discovered your "consciousness", you'll doubtless find clues & inspiration in the Relationships and AIBU forums. People tend not to say "I am suffering an Ibsen-like predicament, with patriarchal underpinnings that Ibsen observed but expressed, as I do now, through an everyday situation."
But you can see it.

Thank you for posting this. I'd heard about "The DOllS House" while reading another book and tried to find it on Amazon but got nothing. Google didn't have much info either
It sounds fascinating. I think some artists and creative people just let the art flow from them, not realising from where, so I can understand why Ibsen may not have realised he was writing a feminist play at the time. He probably aimed to describe life as he saw it, not realising the massive implications.

I would utterly agree with that Sakura

Thanks Iseegrace, I think the self-oppression is almost the biggest part of it, certainly of the text and of Nora's own part....which in turn I think maybe leads of Torvald's enlightenment himself of the role he has perhaps inadvertently played as oppressor.

Would love to hear other people's ideas or thoughts on how or whether it still relates today (we're thinking now of making it an all female cast)

I remember seeing the Doll's House years ago and loving it. It is absolutely still relevant today.
I also agree that your interpretation of it as a feminist play is valid in spite of Ibsen denying that's what he had in mind.
Where's the play going to be on?

I run a theatre company in London which has a pop-up alternative space near Selfridges, we're called Theatre Delicatessen, big on the fringe scene bu otherwise you prob wouldn't have heard of us

I haven't heard of it but then I don't get out much these days . Let us know when your play is on and I'm sure you'll get lots of feminist MNers queuing up to see it!

I was interested in what you said about making it with an all female cast and about looking at self-oppression. I'm trying to picture the play in my head to work out if that would work or not.

winnybella wrote - "Ibsen has distanced himself from the feminist movement...denied he had that in mind when writing A Doll's House"

Even if it wasn't the playwright's intention, I'm glad that "A Doll's House", written in 1879, can be seen as feminist play.

Ibsen died in 1906. I think the feminist movement has evolved very much since his time. If he were alive today, I wonder what he would have thought of developments in society and feminism since he wrote the play.

I like the idea that feminists were able to use the Doll's House analogy in their influential works of the 1960s, for example in Betty Friedan's book "The Feminine Mystique".

Sakura wrote - "I'd heard about "The DOllS House" while reading another book and tried to find it on Amazon but got nothing. Google didn't have much info either"

The text of "A Dolls House" can be downloaded for free from the Project Gutenberg webpage for Henrik Ibsen at www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/i#a861.

thanks vesuvia

will look out for the production - others should too - theatre delicatessen are a v good company

and no GWTMH wouldn't have a clue who I am, this is an unbiased recommendation!

I saw Shared Experience's production of A Doll's House directed by the fabulous Polly Teale. You probably know about her, but if not then you'll find plenty if you google her. She is a feminist and talks about that here, and about A Doll's House here (you have to scroll down through ads). As I say, there's bound to be loads more from her on the web.

Thanks for those link Lio, I love shared experience and know people who've worked with Polly and massively rate her so that's a brilliant place to start.

The more I think about it, the more interesting I think it would be to have an all female cast, looking at self-oppression, I think Nora's intelligence is sometimes undermined and that actually she intentionally plays the child-wife to appease her husband and father, maybe the 'realisation' was always there, she just realises she can't continue living a lie.

Thanks RobynLou! I have no idea who you are...but am well chuffed anyone on mumsnet has heard of my company and think well of us, we work bloody hard at it for free still and with half the company also being young mums, it's great to know we're making a small impact

I would come to see your production, Mousey

I love that your company is made up of young mums!

I agree with dittany. I would be interested in seeing the pornification of society explored through this play. Nora is viewed as a play thing by her father and her husband. Young girls today are under a ton of pressure to be barbie like. We had a fancy dress day at our school today and I was upset by the number of young girls who came dressed as very sexy versions of fairy tale characters.

Thanks for your thoughts. I would absolutely hate to think anything I did was for the gimmick factor, as I said I'm really at the embrionic stages so thinking all sorts of options through but would balk at the idea of doing something in a certain way just because it is new, where there's no substance there is no truth and no art and no life.

I also am not interested in putting across one view point, feminism alone seems to capture so many different themes, and above all else I will be faithful to Nora's story - I guess I'm trying to work out what the world is that my Nora lives in, seeing as I'm not interested in doing a period piece. Yes there is ALWAYS desire for new in the theatre, because it is transient and subjective and there is no such thing as an artist (a good one at any rate) who rehashes other people's work and ideas.

I am starting to think there is an element of self-oppression which is interesting to explore, but totally get that this is essentially born out of a society that makes it so.

chocolatestar the pornification is really interesting, thanks for that - I think there's also something violent about the dressing up as the Capri Fishergirl and dancing the Tarantella wildly, also that she plays on her sexuality with Dr Rank and performs in alternate as the wronged poor woman who needs saving, the woman who is strong and does her best for the family and the women who's only other viable way out is suicide, in terms of her relationship to Krogstad.

I also think it's really important that this doesn't just become Nora's story, because it isn't...

I really appreciate you both responding to the ideas so far, it has made me remind myself that while the whole of feminism seems quiet daunting at the moment to put into one short play and will inevitably lead to confusion and lack of clarity, I also need to make sure it doesn't become a one-dimensional story.

I'm wondering now if it's actually a good idea to workshop some ideas with some actresses...

(thanks Lio...keep an eye out for us!)

You're completely right, but I think what's interesting to me personally is how it is relevant today and making it a modern story, putting it into a 21st Century context.

I don't know of course but am assuming that there are men who STILL think they can beat or rape their wives with impunity today. I don't believe Torvald is that man, whether he has the capacty to be is another thing.

I don't know where this particular train of thought is going (bear with me) but I feel I want to make it quite multi-cultural, or at least not culture specific - or is that going to dilute it? I think I mean I want to explore how the oppression of women is still relevant no matter what section of society you live in or where in the world you come from. Something about the veneer of respectability then has become thicker today...

"But it is a modern story, that's one of the reasons it's so powerful, because women are still shoved in these boxes, expected to play the feminine role in order to keep men (general men not every man is like this) happy."...yes, that's what I mean....I have seen it performed, not well, with a bad translation (which makes all the difference) and I have seen it performed with tremendous power...

It's hard to describe but as a director I have to need to tell this story, the story Ibsen has written, as an artist I need to tell my interpretation of it or how it makes me view my world.

It is a play I can't not direct, I have wanted to for years, but now I think I'm starting to work out the hows and whys...it's not as simple as seeing it being performed and thinking was powerful at the time for me (otherwise I wouldn't have any point in doing it myself)

I played Nora in our 6th form production of a Dolls House, we had an all female cast.

Good luck!