Raising children with Feminism in mind

[ClimberChick]

Not sure if this thread has been done before, but feel free to point me in the right direction.

Have recently started thinking about feminists issues in detail (now that I've found to place to talk and read about it, other than just my own head) and probably more to do with the fact that I have a 6 month DD.

Starting reading to her at bedtime as part of our new routine and it struck me how gender defined the characters are. Even been switching the sexes of the characters, not that DD appreciates my efforts.

This has made me realise that without effort, it will be very easy to reinforce gender expectations etc.

So general tips/areas or behaviours to look out for which we might commonly fall into if not looking (not sure if this makes sense). e.g. when she's older how to avoid all clothes having pink on them/ toys being male or female

[ISNT]

This is a tough one I think. I have 2 DDs, they are 1 and 3.

I can tell you what I do I don't know if that will help?

I think the most important thing is to try to have good role models - so women who do a variety of roles and men who do as well.

I have bought them a variety of toys (both "boys" and "girls" ) and let them get on with it.

I dress them in clothes which are practical, so that when they are learning to crawl and walk and run they aren't impeded or more liable to get injured because of their clothes.

I have to try really hard not to be disparaging about "girls" stuff as I have realised that that is as sexist as anything else - my preference is for toys that do things and maths and stuff, and I have realised that I look down a bit on "girls stuff" - but actually if they are quite "girly" then me sneering at their choices is just as bad.

Try and give a smattering of positive encouragement but not concentrating on appearance/docile behaviour. Again I have to be careful not to go too far the other way and praise DD for being strong/clever etc and neglect to ever say she's pretty.

It's a tough one. We are in the society that we're in and while I want to raise her to understand that she can do anything, I don't want her to be apart from other children because of it.

And be warned, when then start mixing with other children all bets are off anyway, and all of a sudden it's "mummy do my socks match my top? does my hair look pretty? can I have pink hairclips? no that is blue it's for boys" and you just have to bite your tongue and get on with it

I don't know if that's any help. Probably not! I honestly think that the role models at home will be the strongest thing they have, so just set a good example and all will be well (I hope!)

[Sammyuni]

I think it's best to simple allow your child to go with what they like i really don't like forcing them to go with something else because you don't want to reinforce stereotypes when your DD really just likes that pink dress.

Best to just let them know that they are who they are and that they should make choices in life based on what is comfortable for them and what they truly want. And that just because she a girl does not mean that all options are not available or that she should be pigeoned holed to like certain things.

[tabouleh]

Here's a thread with children's books which promote gender equality.

[pinkfizzle]

Ok well this has got me thinking about my Father. This is a bit of rant ... sorry!

I think he was key in me thinking about feminism. Although I remember my mother and father talking about how backyard the 50's were for women (especially with regards to mental health) I used to debate with him alot, especially about feminism.

He was quite a staunch roman catholic, he came from a large family and had a large family, but he was very modern in his thinking in so many ways. For example, he just accepted homosexuality.

My mother was often sick, my father worked very hard outside and inside the home. He would have cooked most of the meals, done most of the housework. So I suppose I never thought that I would ever do the bulk of domestic work, as so many other women I know do.

He actively discouraged me away from rubbish TV shows, and when you think of it many films portray woman badly, when I was young. However, I could watch adult tv shows that were of a better quality in my early teens - i.e Hill Street Blues and we would discuss them. I could see quality films.

I also recall that I wanted barbies and all that pink stuff but I did not get it, we seemed to have endless books, I had to save up and buy my own barbie crap - my parents would not buy it for me - no way!

He would also discuss advertising - which looking back was really important - otherwise I am sure I would have got sucked in badly, especially with fashion magazines.

Oh and although strict I knew I could always call him up, no matter what state, and he would come and get me as a teenager - no questions asked and I think that stance meant I never felt scared out at night, as other women do.

I do remember from him I learn of Billy Jean and the
tennis match, and that is a very early memory and I really think that sparked my interest in feminism.

As an amateur coach, I remember he was really supportive of female athletes. So Martina Naratova was seen as someone cool, but I was also aware of the rubbish media attention she got for being a sports woman. I can only remember having positive female role models being discussed. I think I had a positive body image as a result.

I remember only wanting to go out with someone who would be respectful of women. I remember him talking about the Equal Pay Act, with me being astounded that women still do not earn equal pay.

I remember having massive discussions about the Catholic Church and Germaine Greer. Oh and I am sure I bought the beauty myth after talking to him!

I think in some ways I may have such an equal relationship with my husband because of the discussions I had with my father.

My husband is so equal and cool. He never ever utters anything sexist, never ever.

[pinkfizzle]

Sorry that last post was far too long - and not relevant for a 6 month old.

[ClimberChick]

no pink, that was a great post. Some things in there I hadn't thought about e.g. explaining/critical thinking of advertising

beer a 26yr old daughter, scary thought

[pinkfizzle]

Well I am glad it was thought to be relevant.. phew!

[flibbertigibbert]

I think the most important thing is balance. When I was little I wasn't allowed Barbies by my staunchly feminist mother. I did however have a chemistry set, a train set and a wood working set, which I loved but I really wanted Barbies too so I loved getting to play with them when I went to visit friends. Having my mum force her views on me led to a lot of resentment and arguments. When I got into my teens and had my own money I rebelled by developing an obsession with makeup and announcing to anyone who asked that I was going to be a housewife when I grew up.

Make sure your DD grows up feeling that she can be anything she wants - a doctor, astronaut or SAHM. I don't think it's good to get too hung up on the pink clothes, Barbies etc. The 'girliest' person I know - who was a child model - recently got a neuroscience degree.

[pinkfizzle]

Maybe your friend got Doctor Barbie?

Remember Doctor Barbie? But these days they have those Bratz dolls which I think are just awful!

[CakeandRoses]

Great thread!

As the proud parent of a brand new baby daughter , I've been thinking along similar lines recently. I became a feminist so organically that it's hard for me to work out how to recreate that for my daughter.

My father raised me to believe that there wasn't anything my gender would prevent me from being able to do. He's a true feminist and he believes that women are far more interesting than men

I don't remember any toys or behaviour being encouraged or discouraged because they were supposedly suitable for girl/boys - I was just allowed to be me. As a child I was very rough and tumble, very proud of my physical strength, hated dolls and anything overtly 'girly', whilst as an adult I'm viewed as being very much in touch with my feminine side.

I was quite old before I even realised that my gender could possibly be an issue in the wider world.

Sorry, this probably doesn't help the OP one bit but I'll be keen to see the posts on this thread to get some ideas myself.

[DingALongCow]

My mum always corrected any childhood statements that began 'women can't' and I have done that with DD also. ./M mum worked, studied and trained as a teacher by the time I was 11 and then raised us alone during the week as my dad worked away. I got a really strong work ethic from her and the idea that women can go to university and have a worthwhile and fufilling job and I hoping this is the case for me too.

DD has a mixture of toys and I have encouraged any interests that she has, especially if they are not traditionally female. I have let her have any toys that she requests, nothing is banned but have alway been more excited and willing to play with some toys than others. I have made sure she always has books on her shelf that show strong female characters. I try and ask pertinent questions about less impressive characters Seems to be working as DD (5) requested a dragon slaying party for her birthday, prefers playing with boys rather than girls at school (more fun, more running around apparently) and insisted on having a sword loop sewn onto her dress for a school costume day-she was the only girl with a sword. She knows that adverts are trying to sell you things and now insists on going to look at the toy in a shop before adding it to her Xmas list after a few disappointments.

DH will point out the unreality of 'perfect' women on TV and support me 100% in raising DD to believe she is as equal and as capable as any man. He works in a very male dominated environment which women are traditionally expected not to go into (hard academic science) and is the only man in his department to employ women, two in fact. He also recently paid for one of his female collaborators to travel to one of his workshops, as she is out of the loop having returned from maternity leave and has no grant money left. He does these things in the hope of doing his bit to encourage women into science and keeping them there, to help change the world for the better for DD. She spends a lot of time in his department seeing his students work which I think is very healthy for her to see.

I have a DS too and will do these things for him too. DD was surprised to see me dress him in her old pink bodysuits etc but accepted it quickly (no political point there just for financial reasons!) and now looks out for clothes for him that are not blue. When he fell in love with a doll in the shop she held his hand and helped him choose which one he wanted and gave him her old pink pushchair to push her around in. When her friends laughed at him she defended him in a way that made me so proud!

[DingALongCow]

Forgot to add that I try to be really positive about my body around her. Its certainly not the perfect size 8 as I am a 16 with lots of saggy bits but I never say anything negative about it when she is around e.g. when DD asked about my stretchmarks I told her how much I loved them as she and her brother made them. I also dont mention diets, fat or losing weight around her. Questions about body processes and parts are always answered completely but in an age appropriate way, I try and hold down my own embarrassment!

[NothingButTheTeuch]

I am a mother of sons and I am currently giving (albeit limited!) thinking space to my responsibilities in bringing them up with balanced views of men and women.

I was discussing this with DH the other day, and failing I think .

He agrees that it is important, but we don't know how to go about it.

Is it easier to contemplate when you have a daughter, do you think?

I do try to challenge thinsg as they arise and try to set a good example: I can drive a tractor (badly, but that's not because I'm a woman, its because I don't really want to but I do want my sons to see that I can IYSWIM!!). DH and I share childcare and housekeeping, I try to challenge adverts which are very directed at girls/boys and I try to balance the very masculine toys they have, with a variety of 'girls' toys.

It doesn't help that both FIL & MIL are terrible mysoginists...MIL being the worst!

[CakeandRoses]

Your family sound lovely, Ding and your DH sounds amazing - and unfortunately too rare.

Your DD sounds v much like I was as a child - I would have been v pleased to have had a sword too

Good point re DS too. My toddler son adores anything with wheels - motorbikes, buses etc - including his toy pushchair, which gets daily use pushing his gruffalo or baby doll around

DH needs a bit of encouragement and enlightenment. He's a traditional Yorkshireman who is a bit at DS's doll, shopping basket etc, he questions things like this at first but then accepts them.

It'll be interesting to see how DH is with DD, I'm hopeful that he'll be more open to her playing with what she wants as he is happy with me as a role model for her and can see the benefits of a woman being capable of anything (lets him off the DIY for a start )

[DingALongCow]

Thank you Cakeandroses, I am very lucky with Dh, he is very keen on an equal partnership. He believes that my 'job' as a SAHM is looking after DD and DS and anything else is beyond the remit, so he always thanks me when I do anything extra during my 'working hours' e.g. cleaning, cooking for him, washing his clothes etc. I am very grateful to his mother and his sister who taught him to respect women and see them as equals.

DD loved her sword too, she had lots of swordfights in the playground!

[Spacehoppa]

When my little one was small we never put her in pink but now she semands 'pink and purple'. On the plus side though she will play with lego and trains

[cockles]

4-5 seemsto be a critical age for them absorbing gender rules. My carefully feminist-raised son has just started pointing out things that are 'girls' or 'boys' things' - right down to red vs pink flowers. So how do I respond? He's right, often- his is what culture dictates is a girls thing - but of course I have to challenge that, too. I try to give him some critical tools.

[Quodlibet]

DingaLong - re the positive body image and answering anatomical questions, my mum took a similar line with me and I'm really, really really grateful to her for it. Mine never mentioned dissatisfaction with her body, never put makeup on in front of me, never dieted, never fussed or expressed worry about her appearance. I think as a result I think about these things far less than many women do. I've certainly got fewer body hang-ups than many of my friends seem to have (or have had). I've never dieted.

(I never had a sword but I did have a great Mighty Mouse cape that my mum made me)

[DingALongCow]

Quodlibet, thank you, it feels like the right thing to do, but is so in opposition to what all of her friends are being told. My mother never wore makeup, dieted or worried about her body in front of me and I have never done any of those things either.

cockles-in those situations I tell her thats nonsense & they can be things for anybody and point out examples that back me up. DH has a pink shirt, she has blueGranddad chooses to grow pink flowers in his garden and have them in his house, our doctor is a woman, daddy and granddad push the pushchair/comfort her and are happy cooking, my nannan was a radar instructor. I pull examples from TV programmes books or even the internet if it is a particularly tricky one. At this age she tends to believe me over everyone else (especially if I sound unbothered), even her friends, my word is gospel-not looking forward to the time it won't be!

[DilysPrice]

I had a great moment of fail a couple of years ago when DD (then aged 4 I think) was helping me wrap DS's birthday presents while he had his nap. I couldn't find any wrapping paper large enough apart from the pink flowery stuff, and said that this was a problem. DD, bless her, said "But DS loves flowers!" And she was quite right, he did, and still does, so that's how we wrapped the present.

And since then I have made much more of an effort to remember and promote DS's nuturing, flower-loving side (in the teeth of his very obvious fondness for explosions and disasters).