'Come on fellas, it's a proper boys job, no girls allowed!'

[slouchingtowardswaitrose]

This is what my husband just said to my two young male children to get them excited about going with him to the RAF museum.

Apparently, enticing them with the promise of sexist exclusiveness is a good way to motivate them to put their shoes on.

Much better than, simply, 'Put your shoes on so we can go to the RAF Museum, it's going to be so exciting, lots of aeroplanes and rockets!'

Or even, 'I'm so excited to be spending the day with my boys!'

Or even, 'Boys' day out!' Well, no that's not quite ideal although accurate...

But you know what I mean. Why did he have to impose a sexist narrative on a lovely day out with our boys?

I'm afraid I was not able to let it go unchallenged, so my children were then exposed to a minor shouting match. Great. Even better for their development. But should I NOT challenge that kind of talk, they might think it's OK.

DH's mother never challenged it. She had no daughters, a quietly sexist husband, cultural and religious oppression to boot. She told me herself that she realized when she was in her 50s her DH is a 'chauvenist' - so she stopped making his sandwiches for work. I am, let us say, more challenging. More loudly.

He says this kind of thing a lot.

Despair. My oldest son has picked up some very sexist attitudes. Not all of them are coming from home, but some are.

Please help me explain to my husband, who claims to be a liberal champion of human rights etc, why such statements to our children are unnecessary and hurtful. To them, to me, to society, even to him.

I'll start by telling him that his message implies rejection of me, which does not help them feel they are held by a safe and loving marriage.

Help me with the feministy stuff, and why it's important for ALL of us. Men, women, children, the universe.

Sigh. Remember the other thread, participating in one's own oppression, having a constant low level of despair? I can tell you, right now it's not so low, because the idea of my boys becoming future sexist assholes makes me want to die.

I agree nursery and school are big factors.

DS1 picked up a lot of weird stuff. I know from reading that classifying into systems is a big developmental thing at that age, so some of it is probably inevitable...

but saying that, teachers and other parents, and therefore other children, are also becoming more influential once our children begin childcare at that level. And not everyone cares about feminism. Apparently hardly anyone cares about it.

I'm thinking of starting a thread for feminist mothers of boys. But then...wondering whether the issues are really specific to parenting boys.

Yes, they are actually, aren't they?

Thanks everyone for posting. Most people would not understand the despair about such 'little things' as 'throwaway remarks' to our boys. I'm going to very calmly, in writing, share some of these articulate points with DH.

I think feminism is just as important if you are bringing up a boy as a girl. I have a ds and will be doing my best to bring him up to be someone who will treat women as equals. Seems to be working so far - he's currently debating which of his best friends to marry, but they will apparently wait until they are 23 so they can go to university first. (Both mothers of these girls have quite senior jobs, so presumably both girls have professional aspirations although heaven only knows what will happen in the next 11 years before they leave school!)

The throwaway remarks add up. They add up if they're directed at girls too -- I remember once cringing when I heard a male relative saying 'It's so easy even a girl could do it'.

This sort of stuff has to be nipped in the bud, never left unchallenged. Even if you encounter stiff resistance when you stand up for fairness and positive attitudes, some of what you say surely must sink in.

I yell at DS dad when he comes out with anything like this - he thinks he's being 'ironic'. He's totally supportive of things like DS having a toy pushchair and baby doll, and liking to wear nail varnish, so I cut him a little slack - but not too much.

It's the exclusion aspect of his remark that is so shit. No problem with fathers/sons spending days out together, or mothers/daughters, it's the idea that someone (er, you, OP) should be excluded because of their gener that's the problem. I used to wonder where little kids get their "no you can't play with that truck, you're a GIRL" crap from, mystery solved I suppose :(