?By MillyR Thu 15-Jul-10 20:10:06
Lepapa, nobody is saying that men cannot participate in general life in things that are culturally female. There are simply a few area that feminists want to keep for biological females only. There are huge numbers of other female events and cultural activities where trans people are quite welcome. Trans people are welcome at many feminist events as well - you don't have to be female to be a feminist.
You persistently seem unable to differentiate between what constitutes material reality and what constitutes a social construct and how those two elements interact, which strikes me as odd when you have tried to frame some of your arguments in evolutionary and biocultural terms.
I certainly would not consider it extreme if a white person tried to get access to services that were ringfenced for ethnic minorities and was turned down or excluded from those services. People who have dual or multiple heritages (what you term 'biracial') constitute ethnic minorities in their own right anyway - there isn't some binary of black and white.?
MillyR? Thank you for addressing things reasonably and actually taking the time to respond and dissect me! My penance for being male so far has been to be ignored or insulted? but I guess that the females here could site a long history of that? and I?m not exactly blameless in being a tad cheeky? although I try to do so with a nod and wink, rather than an atomic strike!
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The binary black and white reference you make does add up? to a degree, but I would say that those of ?mixed heritage? are not really seen as an ethnic minority in ?their own right?? maybe by reasonable grounded human beings, or even within ?patriarchal? law systems? but extremists who want to arrest the definitions and meanings around what it is to be ?black? or ?white?, ?male? or ?female?, ?protestant? or catholic? only see such people as detrimental to their cause? a watered down version of what they are fighting for, and if the meanings they are fighting for are watered down then it?s harder to make a case? definitions in a state of flux are not advantageous to creating a firm platform on which to build ones case, as the ?other side?, whoever that is, can use the anomolies in definition to railroad the debate down a cul-de-sac. This is why, I feel, extremists deny shades of grey that undermine their case?. I would argue though that encompassing ideologies actually benefit a standpoint in the longer term as it demonstrates and openness, freedom and confidence in the ideology to enable it to be fluid as it moves forward. Definitions of how we make sense of the world are changing? feminism has a large role to play in this obviously, as it challenges established meanings and practices. There is still a long, long, long way to go, but part of that is also surely the feminist journey to meeting the challenges, rather than standing behind the barricades telling the world to change to fit the feminist agenda.
Material Reality vs Social Construct.
We as humans I think interpret what we perceive to be material reality by what are in fact social constructs? this is how we see the world, debate with each other, develop our understanding and move forward.
The argument that chromosomes merely dictate what is or isn?t ?female?, and thus a material reality, are put forward I think in this debate as the evidence that transgendered individuals do not fit into what it is to be female? any attempt therefore to define MTF?s as female goes against this essential ?reality?? As you point out I have put it that evolution has created men and women differently, but I believe that this is more than a physical difference, and that notions of what it is ?to be? that gender extend beyond physicality, and also beyond the social constructs of being addressed as a ?man? or ?woman? through society. We have evolved differently and our brains have evolved in different ways due to the reality that historically we as men and woman have carried out differing roles in the survival of the species. Feminists can argue that this is essentially unfair or that my point is typically male, but I would be denying the oppression of women if I stated that I felt we were in fact equal. We are not. We are not because women have been subjugated throughout history in almost every culture? The ideal is that we are, and we should be, but patriarchy has made it that women are not equal. We have evolved over millions of years to carry out roles, and how we interact with the world as humans has as much to do with evolution in a physical sense (body & mind[brain]), as it does with being addressed by societies preconceptions of gender roles.
Men are crap at looking for things because they evolved to scour their environment for larger things that they could kill. They therefore can?t find their keys, generally speaking. If it was tied to a boar, life would be easier for me. I?m not a scientist or biologist but I work with many of them. I?ve discussed the issues around transgenderism with many of them and they mostly agree, including the women, and even a feminist, that there are examples in the animal kingdom of creatures of one gender acting as the other despite the physical appearance and markings of the creature. This isn?t stereotyping gender roles proscribed in animals, but the reality that to preserve their species they have evolved to be physically reproductive, and mentally role specific. Men and women have different brains? they have evolved that way. Trans-people therefore are just part of the human race, and some have naturally female instinct or male instinct? Some of us define ourselves as male or female and have elements within the brain that can be ascribed to the opposite sex, but we are all individuals, and as such feel how we feel, regardless of labels? or genitalia? and we express ourselves as how we feel? if this offends some, I would suggest it is the objectors problem, and not that of the individual. Animals who 'act' as the opposite gender are accepted by other creatures within the species generally speaking, yet in humans, because of our social conditioning, we find it difficult to accept, because we have 'made sense' of our world, we have built our ideas in stone and now we have uncovered that nature in fact challenges that, and thus challenges our previously held definitions...
www.newhorizons.org/neuro/diamond_male_female.htm
www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbo dy/sex/index_cookie.shtml
I would say though that as the world changes, it is women who are better equipped for the new worlds, albeit that men will continue to try and wrestle power? but this is what we see in the crisis of masculinity, and the reaction of some men to become mysoginistic? it?s the same for any dominant goose-stepping ideology trying to cling onto power.
Apologies for the length... but i've tried to avoid being a Bombastipottomous!