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"Delicately balanced on a razor edge of mutual toleration": Rowan Marlow, Saint or ?

312 replies

CreativeGreen · 17/01/2026 13:15

Apologies if the quotation isn't quite right there: no Forests to hand.

Inspired by a post on another thread, I need to talk about the Marlows. Is Rowan spectacularly awful, and Lois an Unsangered heroine? Is Giles ghastly? (I think yes). What's your Marlow Family Liking List?

(I will be posting and running for now but I have many thoughts and wanted to start the thread while I remembered to)

OP posts:
pollyhemlock · 17/01/2026 21:10

TarquinGyrfalcon · 17/01/2026 20:56

Thought I'd revive the name for this thread!

Yes in TTK we see casual adulting at its finest!
I do love Ellen's practical and pragmatic management of her siblings and household chores (before they lose Bart)

Yes I do love Ellen as a character. The two younger children are frankly pains in the neck but very realistic.

TarquinGyrfalcon · 17/01/2026 21:12

@pollyhemlock Yes, she manages to capture the realism of family life and children's interactions and behaviour so well - amazing that she was an only child herself

DuchessofReality · 17/01/2026 21:36

Anyone read The Player’s Boy and The Player’s and the Rebels? I had them on practically permanent loan from the school library and loved them.

TarquinGyrfalcon · 17/01/2026 21:43

DuchessofReality · 17/01/2026 21:36

Anyone read The Player’s Boy and The Player’s and the Rebels? I had them on practically permanent loan from the school library and loved them.

Yes - I love spotting the links to the Trennels books - some of the names and little things like the mention of a round window that is mentioned in the modern books.

My favourite character is Humphrey

HelenaWilson · 17/01/2026 21:48

Anyone read The Player’s Boy and The Player’s and the Rebels?

Many years ago.
I liked her version of Will Shakespeare and depiction of theatre life.

LookingThroughGlass · 17/01/2026 21:55

The Player's Boy/Rebels - I've read them and I'm glad I have copies to complete my collection but, in honesty, I didn't enjoy them a quarter as much as the contemporary Marlows. It's not a period of history that I feel any particular affinity with. I always wish AF hadn't taken however many years to write them and had continued with the contemporary books, then we might have two more contemporary Marlow books.

I would love to see the part-drafted book to follow Run Away Home. AF's literary executor says there was no sign of it, but I wonder if AF gave instructions for it to be destroyed (or destroyed it herself). I keep hoping it might miraculously turn up somewhere.

Needlenardlenoo · 17/01/2026 22:01

TarquinGyrfalcon · 17/01/2026 20:54

Lots of the parenting decisions are very questionable.

I love AF as she goes to places other children's authors ignore. She explores all kinds of things like cowardice, the fact characters are nuanced - neither good nor and, loyalty - periods even get a mention in Cricket Term.

She also has a Jewish character, Miranda? Miriam? have an on-the-spot almost conversion while taking part in a Christmas service.

She must have been a very interesting person.

I loved the bit where someone asked the older brother if he liked his job (I think this was in a context of Rowan wondering if she should stick with the farm) and he says something like (I paraphrase) "Yes but that doesn't mean I wake up every morning thinking yay, what a lovely ship" (he's a naval officer).

Needlenardlenoo · 17/01/2026 22:05

Oh and (this is in the step family one I think), Nicola putting a swimsuit on in winter because it's warm in the suntrap conservatory in winter, with a stick of rock she's saved from summer, reading Persuasion and not getting it, then at the end, after seeing her sister's troubles, deciding she does get it and will try reading it again.

God I loved those books. I had to get the out of school ones from inter library loan as only they school ones were in print, and I seriously considered stealing them Blush.

They were so vivid.

Needlenardlenoo · 17/01/2026 22:06

The one where they are trapped in the lighthouse with the killer. Soooo exciting!

LookingThroughGlass · 17/01/2026 22:10

Needlenardlenoo · 17/01/2026 22:01

She also has a Jewish character, Miranda? Miriam? have an on-the-spot almost conversion while taking part in a Christmas service.

She must have been a very interesting person.

I loved the bit where someone asked the older brother if he liked his job (I think this was in a context of Rowan wondering if she should stick with the farm) and he says something like (I paraphrase) "Yes but that doesn't mean I wake up every morning thinking yay, what a lovely ship" (he's a naval officer).

AF was Jewish and converted to Catholicism - old-school Catholicism as practised by the Merricks. I find her religious perspectives expressed through Patrick and to a lesser extend, Miranda, really interesting. It's also interesting that she made her main protagonist a sceptical CofE although with a clear 'pull' towards the Tridentine Mass when she attends it.

AF seems least tolerant of ecumenical Christianity, as described at Patrick's school. I thought Ann got a raw deal after refusing to lend Nicola a bike to attend the Merricks' chapel, not because it was a Catholic Mass but because it was a 'separatist' Catholic Mass in her eyes, whereas she was pro- the moving closer of the two strands of Christianity. That seemed a fair, personal moral stance for Ann to take (to me, as an agnostic, at least).

TarquinGyrfalcon · 17/01/2026 22:15

Needlenardlenoo · 17/01/2026 22:06

The one where they are trapped in the lighthouse with the killer. Soooo exciting!

Lewis Foley was a great character - not out and out evil, self centred, complex and conflicted.

In one of the later books Nicola tries to say this to Peter and he refuses to engage in the conversation. There's also a line in one of the books where Peter finds himself thinking about Foley and quashes the thought immediately.

AndresyFiorella · 17/01/2026 22:16

There's so much that I've forgotten; I need to re-read them all.. I've never read Run Away Home as I could never find it. I remember finding The Ready Made Family utterly bleak and depressing; I remember that scene in the kitchen described up-thread so vividly.

Needlenardlenoo · 17/01/2026 22:16

I am now boggling my head off trying to imagine explaining the point of that scene to my bike riding, TikTok and Traitors-loving 21st C teen!

Thanks @LookingThroughGlass, that was really interesting.

Needlenardlenoo · 17/01/2026 22:18

Ah @AndresyFiorellait took me months of inter library loans and patience to complete the set! I wonder if it's easier now with all the online second hand book sellers.

I wonder why Virago or similar haven't republished them?

Needlenardlenoo · 17/01/2026 22:20

As a teacher, I often think of the part where the scatty twin (Lawrie?) was booted from the school play part in favour of sensible Nicola, and Nicola is then upset to get lots and lots of criticism - the teacher eventually explains it's not because she's even worse, but because she's worth coaching...

LookingThroughGlass · 17/01/2026 22:26

Needlenardlenoo · 17/01/2026 22:18

Ah @AndresyFiorellait took me months of inter library loans and patience to complete the set! I wonder if it's easier now with all the online second hand book sellers.

I wonder why Virago or similar haven't republished them?

It took me about 20 years to get Autumn Term, The Cricket Term, Peter's Room and The Attic Term (charity shops and library discards). Then, the internet arrived and I was able to get End of Term on eBay, then Girls Gone By started reprinting them and I was able to get all the others, plus the historicals and The Thursday Kidnapping.

AndresyFiorella · 17/01/2026 22:30

I need to get searching! I was just thinking my favourite bit of Marlow questionable parenting, was when the mum told Nicola they couldn't afford to keep sending both her and Lawrie to Kingscote and because her sister was a brat and she wasn't, she'd be the one having to leave the school.

LookingThroughGlass · 17/01/2026 22:36

Questionable parenting - making Nick and Lawrie continue wearing 'that dreggy uniform dress' when everyone else was wearing 'properly own clothes' at Kingscote in the evenings. Pam Marlow had said school was the only place they could wear them out. Why did they need to wear them out? While their home clothes (which were themselves multiple hand-me-downs) were lying unworn and being outgrown at home. At least Rowan spoke up for them after the Changear incident.

EmpressaurusKitty · 17/01/2026 23:40

TarquinGyrfalcon · 17/01/2026 21:05

Patrick makes a few questionable decisions -he injures himself badly on the cliffs.Takes Peter to the cliffs where he gets stuck. Endangers Nicola on Buster a number of times including at the Boxing Day hunt when he is so wrapped up in Gondalling he doesn't notice her.

There's a great fanfic cross fiction where Rowan meets Roger Walker from Swallows and Amazons https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11281870/1/Roger-and-the-Marlows

Thanks for sharing this.

TheBookShelf · 18/01/2026 00:01

LookingThroughGlass · 17/01/2026 22:36

Questionable parenting - making Nick and Lawrie continue wearing 'that dreggy uniform dress' when everyone else was wearing 'properly own clothes' at Kingscote in the evenings. Pam Marlow had said school was the only place they could wear them out. Why did they need to wear them out? While their home clothes (which were themselves multiple hand-me-downs) were lying unworn and being outgrown at home. At least Rowan spoke up for them after the Changear incident.

In Autumn Term comments about clothing/uniforms/hand me downs etc are somewhat shaped by clothes rationing, which was still in force when Autumn Term was published in 1948. Thus Nicola and Lawrie are still wearing their older sisters' uniform hand me downs at Kingscote after the uniform colour was changed, but decide they will rather like to be the last girls in the school wearing the old uniform, as by then it will have become a Special Marlow Thing to do so. Some of that wartime clothes rationing mentality also feeds through to some of the later books; here is a lot of make do and mend, clothes remodelling, hand me downs.

Lack of new clothes for the Marlows is also perhaps a nod to broader money difficulties for the landed gentry at the time. The Marlows inherit Trennels when Cousin Jon dies, and the story timeline at that point coincides with very high postwar rates of inheritance tax/estate duty, so money was relatively tight.

CatChant · 18/01/2026 00:06

In an introduction to Antonia White’s wonderful Frost in May Elizabeth Bowen wrote scathingly of “the curl-tossing tomboys of the Fourth at St Ditherings” who were “insultingly unreal to any girl child who has left the nursery”, and said the only school story she could read with pleasure as an adult was What Katy Did at School.

I always think this means that she hadn’t come across Antonia Forest, because her characters are incredibly, recognisably real with flaws and faults and foibles. And even though they are flung into a variety of hair-raising plots over half a century they are still completely believable people.

Ginty kicking the sheets and gibbering in future years whenever she remembers her idiotic behaviour in Falconer’s Lure is so real. So are Marie Dobson’s and Lois Sanger’s capacity to lie to themselves to justify their actions or inactions. So is bookish, clever Karen, the mediocre head girl who “does her own thing and pooh to the rest of us.” And Giles, Nicola’s idol who turns out to have feet of clay when she breaks bounds (at his suggestion) to visit him.

I think Karen married Edwin because she’d found she was out of her depth at Oxford and was running away from being just an also-ran. I imagine a few years later she woke up, said what on earth have I done, and promptly left him.

Rowan, cool, competent and generally unflappable, wondering whether she should be revising more for O Levels and concluding she wasn’t the cramming type, and with a lovely, dry turn of phrase - “my grief would be controllable” and her astute summing up of Marmee’s sacrifice of her daughters’ Christmas breakfasts is admirable.

But they are all such satisfying characters even when one is longing to smack them - I’m thinking of Lawrie’s tantrum over Nicola and Peter buying the pony. Oh, and her getting so carried away playing the part of a dishy teddy girl that she forgets she’s meant to be duping the thug taking her to the cinema!

The character I always feel sorry for is Meg Hopkins, cheated of the Prosser scholarship she so plainly deserved despite the trap for heffalumps, because Miss Keith, not wanting to risk all the Marlow sets of fees walking into the sunset, pulled that piece of jiggery pokery. One can just imagine the debate - we can’t give it to Nicola without a row because Meg’s results are consistently better, ah, but we can give it to Lawrie for being a brilliant actress. Hang on, she messed up The Tempest…No, she was mature enough to recognise her limitations! And poor Meg goes away empty-handed to face her pushy father.

I need to buy The Player’s Boy from GGBP before they run out. We have a copy but one day DD will move out and the complete set of AFs will go with her (because I was daft enough to give them to her) so I’m slowly building up a second set because not having them in the house any more is a very horrible prospect to contemplate.

TheBookShelf · 18/01/2026 00:15

I've always felt sorry for Lois Sanger and can absolutely see why she is as she is. From her perspective, the maddening Marlows are always in the way, centre stage, and she can never quite work out how to handle that. She's a bundle of resentment, but with some cause - the Marlows are insufferable at times. In real life, people who display Marlow-like unearned confidence, arrogance or exclusiveness just through belonging to a particular class or tribe can be very difficult to deal with.

The books strongly nudge us to find Ann annoying. She doesn't pick up nuance or read the room easily, but then she herself is the least nuanced personality of all the Marlow sisters. Straightforward, fairly uncomplicated people don't always pick up complexities in other personalities. Seems to me what her sisters feel towards her is unarticulated guilt (because she is genuinely good hearted whereas they are individually aware of their own failings) expressed mostly as irritation.

HelenaWilson · 18/01/2026 00:30

The Marlows inherit Trennels when Cousin Jon dies, and the story timeline at that point coincides with very high postwar rates of inheritance tax/estate duty, so money was relatively tight.

Trennels was entailed, so I'm not sure if it was subject to death duties in quite the same way. But any part of Great Uncle Lawrence's estate that wasn't entailed - investments or unentailed land - would have had to pay two lots of duties within a relatively few years.

Needlenardlenoo · 18/01/2026 08:34

Oh yes "my grief would be controllable". I still say or think that all the time. It's funny how phrases stick with you. I read the AF books 40 years ago.

I'm loving this thread (especially the economic and social history context) and wondering about a New Year's resolution to get hold of all the books again. I think the school stories are in my secret cupboard along with my Chalet school collection...

LookingThroughGlass · 18/01/2026 09:07

think Karen married Edwin because she’d found she was out of her depth at Oxford and was running away from being just an also-ran. I imagine a few years later she woke up, said what on earth have I done, and promptly left him.

I think this, too. Karen was used to being a big fish in a small pond. At Oxford she was probably an average-sized fish in an enormous pond. There's also probably something in her sisters' comments that she panicked at the thought of being stuck in a teaching career.

In the 'cutting room floor' parts of Runaway Home that were published in 'Celebrating Antonia Forest' Karen has a conversation with Giles in which she mentions the possibility of divorcing Edwin, largely because of his violence towards his children.

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