MN Readalong : Homer’s The Odyssey in 2026

[EineReiseDurchDieZeit]

Proposing 2 chapters a month so for January

1. Athene Visits Telemachus
2. The Debate In Ithaca

Convening at the end of each month

Everyone welcome!

Morning Odysseyians! Who wants to join me in giving Telemachus a Paddington Hard Stare?

Morning ! I got on well with the Wilson for this! Thought it was very straightforward

I loved Wilson’s intro- how she sees Odysseus not as a hero entirely which I completely agree with. Her translation is easy to follow but loses some of the majesty and drama of some of the earlier translations I’ve read (bits of Rieu, all of Fagles) With The Iliad Lattimore worked best for me. I would love to try and get his translation of The Odyssey (assuming there is one)

I need to go back and read the intro.

Can’t believe one of the first things Telemachus says to a “stranger” is that his mum might have put it about and he might not be Odysseus’s son. Ungrateful wretch.

I agree the translation was easy to follow. Enjoyed Claire Danes reading to me and also read the 2 books on Kindle.

(Off topic - @ShackletonSailingSouth i watched the documentary about finding your boat Endurance last night, it was excellent- I cried!)

I've really enjoyed coming back to the Odyssey and have loved Wilson's translation. A couple of things struck me.
One is how much ground Homer covers in the first few lines of the poem - giving us a quick summary of Odysseus's situation and then summarising the fate of Agamemnon - before zooming in on Telemachus back at Ithaca. It reminds me of something Emily Wilson said on the excellent zoom event someone posted here, which is that just because the epic is old, it doesn't mean it is unsophisticated. Starting the poem like this (and, spoiler, not having Odysseus appear in person for quite a while yet) is a deliberate decision by the poet.

Second, Telemachus comes across so young and immature! He must be at least 19/20 (not sure if the epic ever tells us exactly) but seems a lot younger.
Maybe that's why he says that about his mother, I'm not sure. However, in contrast to the suitors, when Athene arrives he does correctly follow the rules of Xenia ( guest-friendship) which is a theme throughout the book.
Looking forward to hearing others' views.

Yy on following Xenia.

Telemachus is a weird mix of immature and not. He was born before Odysseus left Ithaca so will be 20/21 by the end of the books (not sure where in time we are now) But if he wasn’t Odysseus’s son, he would have little right to be lurking about the palace, so a rash (as well as disloyal) thing to say.

Good point on the summarising :-)

<hums “He Had It Coming” re Agamemnon>

I wonder if we are just seeing Telemachus being angry or ambivalent about Odyaseus when he says he doesn't know if he is really his father.

What did everyone else think of the first two books?

I did think Telemachus was a bit rude to his poor mum and loads of the female population with his ‘no man can know his parentage’ bit

but to be fair in those ages of gods disguising themselves to have sex with humans they liked the look of i guess it was a fair comment

i did read in the intro about the hospitality theme running through the book and i can see how out of hand it could get with having to be hospitable to every tom dick and harry that rocks up

Just wanted to say how much I am enjoying the reading. When I mentioned to my book group what I was reading, most people commented that it must be a hard read, very dry. But it is not at all (reading the Rieu). I am finding it a great read.

I fear that I am not stewarding this well, I just don’t think there’s a lot to say about the first two books. 🤷‍♀️ see you guys on the 28th for books 3-4

Sorry I'm late!
I found the Wilson translation pleasantly clear and accessible. I like the rhythm of it and the naturalism.

Re Telemachus, I felt he was acting out as he feels a bit adrift between childhood and adulthood. His father has been away for absolute years and he's not had a positive male role model that I can see, to guide him in how to be a decent man. I felt his comments about his paternity came from resentment at Odysseus not being there for him.

Then Athena shames him a bit by telling him to grow up and take charge of the situation. He knows she's right but I think he subsequently lashes out at his mum. I've got teenage / YA boys and I"ve often felt their confusion, fear and frustration aimed at me and belittling me or other women to make themselves feel more masculine and secure. It seemed quite modern in its understanding of psychology really, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

I enjoyed Athena's agency and "take charge" kind of competence as shown here. She seems a pretty bad ass character which was a pleasant surprise as I was expecting it to be mostly focused on how great Odysseus is.

The suitors are outrageous! What a great situation engineered by the poet to lead to all sorts of conflict and tension.

Thanks so much @EineReiseDurchDieZeit , I appreciate you running this as it seems very achievable to read in the time scale

Hope I didn't write too much!

The suitors ARE outrageous! Far too entitled for Penelope to want to marry any of them.

Also late to comment. I read the start a while ago so don't remember it that clearly.

I studied books of the Odyssey at school and uni in Greek but never read the full thing so hadn't realised it started at the end and then flashed back. It's so interesting to think this device is literally as old as literature!

Yes Telemachus is quite annoying. But it did make me laugh that he tells the nurse not to tell Penelope that's he's gone for 12 days. That really is a long time not to notice your 20 year old isn't around, even if you do live in a palace!

I haven't read the introduction yet but read some interesting stuff about Wilson trying to translate more accurately by portraying the women in the house as slaves rather than maids. And the first line where she calls Odysseus "a complicated man" compared with "A man of many ways" or Samuel Butler who called him "an ingenious hero who travelled far and wide". The Greek is "polytropon" which literally does mean many ways.

Sorry bit of an diversion there.

@Stowickthevast I've never been sure what polytropos actually means - does it mean many ways of acting/being depending on the situation? Or is that a metaphorical usage? (The Fagles translation I think is "the man of twists and turns") Is it used elsewhere in Homer do you know?

One of the interesting things about Greek is that it often has fewer specific words than English - or at least doesn't have equivalents for many of the precise and specific terms we have in English. So some of the subtle distinctions we might draw by using different words cannot be communicated directly the same way in Greek as it's just the same one word for what we would consider to be distinct concepts in English.

For instance, to take a less abstract example, Greek uses the same word for "arm" and "hand" (or "foot" and "leg"). You take the specific meaning intended from the context rather than the word itself. It's curious as a native English speaker as I often feel like I'm being too vague when talking in Greek because I want more specific and precise words for certain things. However I think it's quite useful to bear in mind as a characteristic when reading a translation of a Greek text.

I just found this written by Wilson on her translation of this epithet, which is probably more compelling than my take: https://open.substack.com/pub/emily613/p/on-complicated

Also this:
πολύ-τροπος , ον, (τρέπω)
A.much-turned, i.e. much-travelled, much-wandering, epith. of Odysseus, Od.1.1, 10.330.
II. turning many ways: metaph., shifty, versatile, wily, of Hermes, h.Merc.13,439; “τοῖς ἀσθενέσι καὶ π. θηρίοις” Pl.Plt.291b; and in this sense Plato took the word as applied to Odysseus, Hp.Mi.364e (Sup.), al.; τὸ π. τῆς γνώμης their versatility of mind, Th.3.83; τὸ π., of Alcibiades, Plu.Alc. 24.

1. fickle, “ὅμιλος” Ps.-Phoc.95.
2. of diseases, changeful, complicated, Plu.Num.22; also “πόλεμος τοῖς πάθεσι ποικίλος καὶ ταῖς τύχαις πολυτροπώτατος” Id.Mar.33; “στρατεία” Eun.Hist. p.223D.

III. various, manifold, “ξυμφοραί” Th.2.44; ἐπιθυμίαι, ἐθισμοὶ τῶν λέξεων, Epicur.Fr.471, Nat.28.1 (p.7V.); “κακά” Ph.2.567; “ἔθνη” Plu.Marc.12; “τύχαι” Id.Alc.2; “ὄργια” Lyr.Alex.Adesp.36.3; “τὸ π.” Phld.Sign.26. Adv. “-πως” in many manners, Meno Iatr.20.31, Ph.2.512, Ep.Hebr.1.1, Iamb.Comm.Math.12: Comp., “-ωτέρως καὶ ποικιλωτέρως” Epicur.Nat.5 G. Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon. revised and augmented throughout by. Sir Henry Stuart Jones. with the assistance of. Roderick McKenzie. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1940.

https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:entry=polu/tropos

Great analysis @tumbletoast

I was underwhelmed by it so far. It didn't sound poetic to me. My dad has always gone on about Greek epics so I just expected something else i think! But I will keep going.

@Dolamroth which translation are you reading? Some are more flowery than others. I think Wilson's is purposefully more plain speaking (personally I've enjoyed it for its clarity). If you've got hers you may prefer a different edition.
I think it does also start in a fairly domestic way with some bickering about who's eaten all the pigs 😅

Thanks for all the interesting comments so far! Especially the language analysis which I find fascinating. I like the natural, down-to-earth feel of the Wilson, I get the impression it makes the story more realistic and current than other, more flowery and archaic translations might do (not that I've read any others - only some bits in the original at uni).

I find it difficult to understand what we are meant to think of Telemachus - he's so incredibly immature for a 20-odd-year-old (at that time, when men would be married with kids and going to war at the same sort of age - things are a bit different now and we all definitely have a longer adolescence!). Are we supposed to think that being brought up by only women in the absence of his father has caused his childishness? Or is it the fact of having the suitors around all the time, treating him like a kid but without the usual parental support to get him to manhood? I'm sure we're definitely meant to be comparing him (unfavourably) with Odysseus at the same age.

And again, what are we supposed to think about his rudeness about, and dismissiveness of, his mother (suggesting Odysseus might not be his father, assuming she can be - and needs to be - unaware of his journey, ordering her about)? I would like to think these are actions which we are meant to judge negatively, but actually I get the impression that we are supposed to applaud them as glimpses of manliness and maturity - ordering women around and treating them like lesser beings is what being a man is all about!

Overall, I'm not a fan of the first two books due to their focus on Telemachus, though I do appreciate the filmic nature of starting towards the end of the story before jumping back.

It's the Wilson translation. I think I was expecting it to be a bit like Shakespeare! It just sounds like prose to my ear. I will keep going anyway.

Have you tried reading it aloud? You might hear and feel the rhythm more that way. It's not poetic in the sense of rhyme and wimsy, but in the rhythm used because they were originally for singing or reciting. Wilson has used an English equivalent of the rhythm used in the Greek (because it wouldn't work in English).

There are other translations that took a different approach and ditched any rhythm but tried to make it sound archaic/flowery/Shakespearean. You could perhaps try one of those if you think you would enjoy that more?

The epic part of "epic poem" comes more from the themes told, the poem part was just the rhythm.

This is perfect, ordering the Wilson translation immediately.
Just alongside, I'd like to re read Circe which a few years ago I thought was marvellous. Have been a bit disappointed by some of the other re-tellings, anyone recommend anything?

Have you read The Song of Achilles @BookEngine ? Also very good and it's set at the time of the Iliad so before the Odyssey. I also think Pat Barker's Women Of Troy series is good and puts into context some of the characters.
I've found some of the others a mixed bag. Stone Blind was ok, read a little YA to me and my 13 year old loved it.

There's a section in her Translator 's Note which says she's tried to achieve "a stylistic simplicity that I hope echoes the original". She talks about the (in her eyes incorrect) idea that Homer should be "rendered in grand, ornate, rhetorically elevated English". I don't read Greek so I've no clue, but it sounds like a lot of previous translators took it upon themselves to "improve" the original!
The whole note is worth a read I think. I liked reading about her process.

Margaret Atwood's Penelopiad is great imo! A feminist perspective.
I second Song of Achilles and Pat Barker. Also A Thousand Ships.