📚 'Rather Dated' April: Noel Streatfield’s ‘Saplings’ 📚

[MotherofPearl]

Welcome to the Mumsnet 'Rather Dated' book club. This month we are reading and discussing Noel Streatfield’s ‘Saplings’. Please do add your thoughts when you are ready.

About the threads:

We are reading and discussing fiction from the 1930s to the 1990s that would have been described as 'contemporary' in its day. We are reading one book a month. Spoilers are permitted!

We started the chat thanks to a thread where we kicked off with a discussion of Penelope Lively, The Road to Lichfield.

Currently we have these separate threads:

November: Anita Brookner, A Start in Life
December: Margaret Drabble: A Summer Bird-Cage
January: Elizabeth Jane Howard, The Beautiful Visit.
March: Winifred Watson, Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day.
April: R.C. Sheriff, The Fortnight in September.
May: Elizabeth Taylor, Mrs Palfrey at the Claremont.
June: Margaret Kennedy, The Feast.
July: Mollie Panter-Downes, One Fine Day.
August: Elizabeth Von Arnim, The Enchanted April.
September: Barbara Pym, An Academic Question.
October: Dorothy Whipple, High Wages.
November: Elizabeth Bowen, The Last September.
December: Monica Dickens, The Fancy.
January: E.M. Delafield, The Messalina of the Suburbs.
February: F.M. Mayor, The Rector’s Daughter.
March: Penelope Fitzgerald, The Bookshop.* *

Link to the main thread:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/what_were_reading/5029141-the-mumsnet-rather-dated-book-group-all-welcome-to-join?page=2&reply=133984693

I’m dying to know what people thought, but I’m reluctant to be the first to jump in!

I read this quite recently after finding some of her books online. I was not a fan of the premise that English children suffered to an extent comparable to children on the continent. But the story itself was sad and convincing. The boy’s fears about his father were pretty devastating.

I really enjoyed this, although it is sad.

Random thoughts:

• I was intrigued by the children’s names, as they seem very unusual for the time the book is set. Interesting that the children did all have more standard names on their birth certificates chosen by their father, but then they agreed to use more interesting names chosen by their mother. I thought this highlighted the different approaches of the parents, but with Lena ultimately getting her way. I think we only found out Laurel’s real name (Ann) - don’t recall the others being mentioned.
• The references to sex are surprising in a book of this time - obviously not graphic but it’s clear that Lena prioritises sex over lots of other things, including her children sometimes. Refreshing to see a book showing a woman enjoying sex, but sad that she couldn’t put her children first a bit more often.
• I just felt so sorry for the children, being shunted around all these relatives that didn’t really want them. I’m not sure what sort of adults they would have grown into.

There's so much to discuss about this book.

The way the family is portrayed at the start, playing on the beach, they seem almost perfect. Handsome father, glamorous mother, two girls, two boys .. and appearances are very important to Lena. I remember the children complaining about the expectation they'd be dressed up in co-ordinating blue outfits to look good at dinner in the hotel. Lena loves them in her way but also regards them as charming accessories; she loves to be admired.

Their father is interesting - he takes time and trouble to try to understand and guide the children. He's very earnest, and I think it's one of his sisters who comments later that perhaps it's not advisable to train children up like plants (or something similar), and they're certainly cast adrift once Alex is no longer around to keep the family stable.

NS is excellent at presenting the world from a child's point of view. Little Tuesday, right at the start, is the child who's most aware that something is amiss. Because the adults think she's too young to understand, they talk more freely around her, and she knows that they're afraid .. and because her nanny and governess are afraid, Tuesday is afraid too. We realise very early on that this seemingly idyllic world is under threat.

It's also very true that children can find it impossible to articulate their unhappiness even to kind adults who would do their best to help. Laurel and Tony in particular struggle with different problems after their father's death; it's quite heartbreaking.

I could go on (I wrote a review of Saplings for a local magazine so I had to study it closely) but I think that's plenty for now!

@ChessieFL that's really interesting about the names. I'd missed out on that detail.
And the sex .. yes, unusual to be so explicit in a book at the time. I did feel the author was fairly disapproving of Lena. To some extent I understand why; Lena is less aware of the need to shield the children than her American lover, who seems a decent guy. I worried for the children with the dreadful final husband though.

I thought at first that I’d already read this, then realised I was thinking of Parson's Nine, which in many ways is a version of this book, except set at the time of the Great War and much less bleak - although it certainly has its moments. It also features a comforting Nannie, one girl who goes through emotional agonies without telling anyone, and a close-knit family of children who we follow through several years. Streatfeild wrote that in 1932 and to me it feels almost like a shadow version, or a rehearsal, of Saplings, which she then makes even tougher and darker.

It also struck me how much so many elements of the storyline echo her children’s books, but flip them to show a harder, less varnished truth - there’s a 'nursery', a source of refuge and safety, in the person of Nannie, but the children are constantly shunted from place to place so most of them are separated from her, except Tuesday who, as highland says, intuits the tensions around her (and seems quite an unhappy child for a lot of the book). Kim is the double of show-offy Posy Fossil in Ballet Shoes, but he doesn’t really have a talent, just a genius for being annoying and hogging attention; you sense he'll coast through life on charm and good looks. And poor Laurel never has the happy ending she so desperately craves; she doesn’t find the one thing she's really good at, like acting or skating or whatever - instead she has to go through years at a school she hates, with nobody to confide in and nobody to see her as she really is - other than the very occasional visit from the sympathetic Ruth. I found myself hoping that Ruth will marry John and together they'll find a way to have Laurel come and live with them.

The other thing that really struck me was how much - despite Alex's laudable policy of being truthful with his children - most of the adults didn’t talk to them and didn’t tell them quite obvious pieces of information. The 'grown-ups' remained very remote in so many ways even though Tony and Laurel were moving into their teens; they were still treated as much younger children. So many of the misunderstandings in the book needn’t have arisen if the adults had just told the children a bit more….it was an interesting illustration of the times and how it was felt children should be treated.

Hello all! I agree with all your comments.
I thought Saplings was very good indeed. It was a tough read. The children had such a hard time going from one bad situation to another. The final line by Mrs Oliver saying that how lucky the children were to not have suffered like others abroad really struck the final blow. Physically they came through it, but they were damaged psychologically and I'm not certain that the adults recognised it. Whether they didn't want to acknowledge it or just didn't see it, I'm not sure. I think Ruth was perceptive and the grandfather was as well. And the lovely school principal wanted to help Laurel and could have been a good influence in her life if their mother hadn't moved her to the other school.

The mother in the book, Lena. Where to begin?! It was mentioned in the afterward that Lena is a pivotal character in the book and I thought the same. It could have been very different for the children had she acted differently and not put her own needs first after her husband's death. I don't think she was very stable to begin with and she seemed to have an addictive personality. Alex was the strong one. He was such a loss to them all. I felt sad when he died! The episode where Tony went back to the family home was awfully sad and his terrors afterwards.

I agree that Saplings is like a darker version of a children's book, one that does not have a happy ending but presents tough unvarnished truths as Terpsichore said.* *Perhaps Ruth will look out for Laurel. The step-father is hideous and could be very damaging for the younger children. The older two might be okay and get out of there sooner.

There was a lot in the book. The extended families were also interesting. And poor Albert and Ernest. I think this is a book that will stay with me. The fact that it was told from the perspective of the children made it very convincing. A worthwhile read.

Good choice, I really enjoyed this. I'll come back with more of my thoughts but thought that it gave the children's percectives well as the adults seemed to not realise the impact on them when making decisions. The adults in the book seemed to have that idea that children are young enough and they will 'get over it' whereas wearing the wrong uniform, seeing a parent drunk, being just sent away etc is the sort of experience that stays with people.

I'm so late posting this month; apologies.

I've just finished Saplings, and I loved it. I found the story really compelling, though of course sad. Lena was really a deplorable mother, but I suppose it was quite interesting and unusual to see a woman in a novel of this era being depicted as so focused on sex - especially a mother.

I thought Lindsey was absolutely vile. Her treatment of Laurel was so heartless. The overheard comment about Laurel - 'rather a moron' - was devastating, but Lindsey seemed oblivious to the damage she'd done to someone who was already so hurt and vulnerable.

I like to think that at the end John and Ruth found happiness together, and took Laurel under their wing. I wonder what the future held for Tony? I think Laurel would always look out for Tuesday, and of course Kim was always going to be fine. I found the children and their world so beautifully drawn; I completely believed in it.

There were some moments of humour - Nannie's comments about being 'on the spread' made me laugh.

I've never read any Noel Streatfield before, but am now curious to try Ballet Shoes.

Good to hear from you MotherofPearl!
Yes, Nannie was as an enjoyable character as Lindsey was an odious one.
I agree that her comment was damaging. So horrible.

Did anyone else have to look up the medical term for wetting the bed or was it only me?!

I also thought the same, that I would like to read 'Ballet Shoes' some time.

Hello Fuzzy! I only knew the term for bed-wetting as I had a friend whose DS suffered from it for a while.

I've made a start on our next book, The L-Shaped Room, and I've been hooked in straight away.

Ah! I hadn't heard of it. The way Nannie was going on, I was afraid it was something awfully serious!

Brilliant re 'The L-Shaped Room'. I'm looking forward to it very much.

I went into a big secondhand bookshop today and bingo! they had a copy of The L-Shaped Room. I'm looking forward to re-reading it.

Desperately late here, for some reason I missed this thread.
Saplings has gone back to the library, so I will have to dredge my ageing memory for what I thought.
NS is one of the few writers I can think of who can write convincingly as a child. I know from experience how difficult this is. I thought this was very impressive and authentic.
I felt very sorry for Lena, although I also felt that the author was quite obvious in her own dislike for her.
The teenage boy at school, sorry, I have forgotten the name, who was so worried about his father being buried alive … that was done so well, and I found it very painful to read.
Overall, this was a sophisticated and in some ways very modern read. One of the gifts this thread has given me is some novelistic insights into the Second World War, written contemporaneously, and focussing on the domestic and familial settings, rather than the war itself if you see what I mean. Fascinating.

One of the gifts this thread has given me is some novelistic insights into the Second World War, written contemporaneously, and focussing on the domestic and familial settings, rather than the war itself if you see what I mean. Fascinating.

Yes, I agree, @StellaOlivetti - as a fiend for WW2 domestic fiction! Have we had a conversation about Barbara Noble’s Doreen, which I’m forever pushing onto recommending to people?

@Terpsichore , no you haven’t mentioned it before but I have looked it up and it sounds intriguing. I’m going to try and track down a copy.

Has anyone read the books written by NF under the pseudonym Susan Scarlett? I got a bit addicted to them last year because it was easy reading and the first few were quite comforting, dated of course but still enjoyable. The last few weren't quite as good but still, it was a bit of a treat to discover.

I’ve read one and enjoyed it so I keep meaning to seek out some of the others.

'The House Opposite' by Barbara Noble is on Kindle for 2.72. It looks good! No sign of 'Doreen' on there.

The House Opposite is good but Doreen is in another class tbh. Persephone publish it (and btw, Front Row are about to do a feature on Persephone - I just heard them mentioning it at the start of tonight’s programme)

'Doreen' is in the library according to the system so I've put in a request for it and it will arrive in its own sweet time I'm sure :)

And my library too! I’ve reserved it.

@FuzzyCaoraDhubh @StellaOlivetti I'll warn you that it’s heartbreaking but so, so good.

Thanks @Terpsichore Any recommendation from you will be a good one.

It would have made a good Rather Dated actually. Doh! 😣

Just catching up on more recent comments - and adding Doreen to my TBR list.