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Horribly let down by Rebecca

209 replies

MsAmerica · 12/03/2024 01:43

I love the Hitchcock movie of Rebecca, my second or third favorite Hitchcock, and I've always heard that the book was good, so when I recently came across a cheap copy, I bought it.

What a disappointment! Hated all the excessive description of greenery. Impatient at the overkill. But, worst, while the character of Max is slightly pleasanter than Olivier in the movie, the unnamed narrator is unbearable - a whiny, insecure bore.

Ugh!

OP posts:
MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 17/03/2024 12:04

I don't blame the narrator - from the hints you get early on she's come down a bit in the world and is broke so has to work and can't be choosy about it - and she admits she has no qualifications to be anything other than a companion. She doesn't sum up her acceptance of DeW in such mercenary terms, (she is in love with him, after all) but he represents lifelong security, a very nice life in county society and she'll get to see Manderley for real. So she's in thrall to the house like he is.

What does make me 🙄with the benefit of age and being on MN for a while 😉 is the total acceptance of the fact that she's married to a murderer and his narrative of Rebecca as this bitch who made his life unbearable - the 'my ex is a psycho' narrative. She has no vision but his. Plus he's pretty controlling - she gets no say over her bedroom, for a start.

Sockdolager · 17/03/2024 12:41

MrsWhattery · 16/03/2024 17:45

I didn’t root for the narrator as such - I thought she was naive and gullible, but also a victim of the whole situation - marrying someone like Maxim is a chance for a life she couldn’t have otherwise (because patriarchy), so on a cynical level it makes sense. I didn’t like it when she accepts his story and stays with him. But I think the book is partly about how all three women, the narrator, Rebecca and Mrs Danvers, react to the patriarchal hand they’re dealt. How they can claim or find some power or agency, within or outside the role they’re in.

I think part of the coup a PP mentioned is the way Maxim says he murdered a pregnant woman and it’s all set up so that it’s justified and he gets away with it, after all she was bitch. It’s a bit like Trump saying he could shoot someone (besides talking about sexually assaulting women) and it would make no difference to his popularity. And that’s who the narrator is dealing with.

The Bluebeard story really fascinates me and has so many meanings but one of them for me is about men letting women know they’re dispensable.

Absolutely. Look how many Mrs de Winters are in the novel — as well as Maxim’s two wives (the second of whom doesn’t even get a first name, so she’s literally named purely by her role), there’s his dead mother and his living grandmother, who confuses the second Mrs de Winter with the first, and the ancestor, Caroline de Winter that both Rebecca and the narrator dress up as.

The name and the house continue, as does the importance of the heir (hence Max’s murder of what he believes to be he cuckoo in the nest, as well as his unfaithful wife), the individual women come and go. The role outlasts its occupants.

The first morning, when the second Mrs De Winter answers the house phone to Mrs Danvers and, not realising she’s being addressed, actually denies her own existence by saying ‘Mrs De Winter is dead’.

Max infantilises her throughout, patting her like a dog, correcting her manners and telling her she’s acting like an applicant after a housemaid’s job rather than the lady of the house, suggesting she dresses up as Alice in Wonderland for the ball.

Only after he tells her he murdered Rebecca does the narrative actually tell us they sleep together (I mean, we assume they do on honeymoon, but now we’re told they share a bed all night), and the narrator start taking control of the house, giving her own orders, changing menus. But Max likes her for being so unsexual, childish, disempowered, meek — because she’s the opposite of the entrancing, strong, charismatic, sexual Rebecca, who flouts patriarchal norms and heterosexuality alike (well, probably — strongly suggested in Max’s disgusted ‘she was not even normal’).

Of course, in the ‘now’, she’s the adult taking care of a childlike/prematurely aged Max.

Though what do other people make of the ‘aftermath’ in the present? Manderley is burnt, certainly, but why can’t they live in England — the land is still there, he’s still rich, they could restore/rebuild, or settle elsewhere etc. He can’t surely be at risk from the law with Rebecca’s suicide motive ‘proven’? Or why not make a home in France — there’s no need to live in a series of hotels. And why don’t they have children, as they planned? Is Max now impotent without his house, even if the land is still there to pass on?

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 17/03/2024 13:02

Though what do other people make of the ‘aftermath’ in the present? Manderley is burnt, certainly, but why can’t they live in England — the land is still there, he’s still rich, they could restore/rebuild, or settle elsewhere etc. He can’t surely be at risk from the law with Rebecca’s suicide motive ‘proven’?

That's always puzzled me. It's the 1930s, isn't it? what's the need to flee abroad? presumably not all his money is tied up in the house, even if they decide to live abroad they could have a villa or a decent hotel suite. And with it being the 30s and a lot happening politically, pretty much any scandal would soon be old news. Favell might make trouble but I get the feeling he's not of the social class that would be listened to - alcoholic ex-lover as opposed to rich man whose wife committed suicide. The boatbuilder might - he raised the issues of the boat being seaworthy at the inquest - but ditto about him having no power. It would all be rumour.

I think Maxim is a very self-confident arrogant type - he's admitted to murder to his wife so she, should she feel like it, could ruin him and yet he must be confident enough to know she won't. And yet they flee abroad to avoid the pointing fingers. It's an odd paradox.

CeeceeBloomingdale · 17/03/2024 13:15

Oh no I love it, I've read it many times and love the various film adaptions. I like flawed characters, I mean the protagonist doesn't even have a name which adds to the insipidness.

Movinghouseatlast · 17/03/2024 13:39

I think fleeing abroad is Max's way of punishing himself.

Reading Rebecca through the lens of reading the biography of Daphne did Maurier is fascinating. Her love of Cornwall and her passion and obsession with Menabilly drove Daphne, as well as her confusion about her sexuality and gender. For her the biggest punishment of all would be to be removed from Cornwall, hence this is the punishment she drives Max in the novel.

Instantcustard · 17/03/2024 13:46

I think being abroad could be seen as a type of limbo. They're not in hell but they are also not allowed to enjoy a heaven either. They are destined to roam forever!

CheeseSandwichRiskAssessment · 17/03/2024 15:45

They were also happy when they met abroad then unhappy in England, I interpreted it like that as well

Barbadossunset · 17/03/2024 16:33

Manderley is burnt, certainly, but why can’t they live in England — the land is still there, he’s still rich, they could restore/rebuild, or settle elsewhere etc. He can’t surely be at risk from the law with Rebecca’s suicide motive ‘proven’?

I wondered that. Also since he still owns the land presumably he is kept informed about what’s happening on the estate and he’d have to make some decisions about farming etc. Unless he sold it.

mikado1 · 17/03/2024 16:40

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

mikado1 · 17/03/2024 16:41

No idea why my post has been hidden 🤔

I only said I loved it!

SirChenjins · 17/03/2024 16:51

Goodness - what did you say?!

mikado1 · 17/03/2024 20:17

SirChenjins · 17/03/2024 16:51

Goodness - what did you say?!

I said I loved it and must reread it, that we loved it as 16yos in school and our teacher complained if we read on.

SirChenjins · 17/03/2024 20:27
Confused
tobee · 17/03/2024 23:44

Barbadossunset · 17/03/2024 16:33

Manderley is burnt, certainly, but why can’t they live in England — the land is still there, he’s still rich, they could restore/rebuild, or settle elsewhere etc. He can’t surely be at risk from the law with Rebecca’s suicide motive ‘proven’?

I wondered that. Also since he still owns the land presumably he is kept informed about what’s happening on the estate and he’d have to make some decisions about farming etc. Unless he sold it.

Yes I like not knowing all the practicalities though.

It's also interesting what Manderley represents in terms of the dying off of these kind of houses with families living there for centuries and how that changed most parts of the aristocracy and the history of the country. Frith showing the public about a few rooms in the house probably wouldn't cut it to run the house and estate these days even if National Trust.

tobee · 17/03/2024 23:50

Sorry that's a bit poorly written but you get what I mean

SheerLucks · 18/03/2024 00:04

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 12/03/2024 09:27

The 2nd Mrs is irritating but she's young and insecure with a deep inferiority complex before she meets Maxim - and older man who's used to having everything his way and people deferring to him. That's just reinforced when they get to Manderley and she has a very much second best bedroom.

I wonder about her at the end of the book - she's married to a man who she knows killed his wife. What goes through her head when she decides to stay with him?

Must read it again. Along with Frenchman's Creek.

SPOILER ALERT!

But wasn't the ending that Rebecca committed suicide?

Or was that just the latest film??

Rainydayinlondon · 18/03/2024 00:32

Instantcustard · 17/03/2024 13:46

I think being abroad could be seen as a type of limbo. They're not in hell but they are also not allowed to enjoy a heaven either. They are destined to roam forever!

This is an interesting take...

Barbadossunset · 18/03/2024 07:19

Frith showing the public about a few rooms in the house probably wouldn't cut it to run the house and estate these days even if National Trust.

Yes that’s true - though we don’t know anything about the extent of Maxim’s wealth. If Manderley relied solely on farming for income then that wouldn’t be enough, but there may have been other sources of income.

Barbadossunset · 18/03/2024 07:20

Rainydayinlondon · 18/03/2024 00:32

This is an interesting take...

I agree - very perceptive.

SevenSeasOfRhye · 18/03/2024 07:43

I find the parallels with Jane Eyre interesting. I think the ending of Rebecca, with the de Winters trapped in a dull roaming life, is what would have happened to JE and Rochester if Jane had accepted Rochester's plea to run away with him after their wedding was prevented.

theleafandnotthetree · 18/03/2024 07:49

SheerLucks · 18/03/2024 00:04

SPOILER ALERT!

But wasn't the ending that Rebecca committed suicide?

Or was that just the latest film??

The latest film was ludicrous, I dipped into it and it bore little resemblance to the source material..

CheeseSandwichRiskAssessment · 18/03/2024 08:39

I always felt like she did commit suicide in a way by goading maxim to kill her, because she was going to die anyways and she wanted to bring him down.

Sockdolager · 18/03/2024 09:08

SheerLucks · 18/03/2024 00:04

SPOILER ALERT!

But wasn't the ending that Rebecca committed suicide?

Or was that just the latest film??

The one with Armie Hammer? I only watched the first part, which was so wrong-headed it suggested whoever wrote the screenplay hadn’t understood the novel at all, so I never got to that part. I think all film adaptations I’ve seen have softened the depiction of Maxim cold-bloodedly shooting his pregnant wife, though, so we don’t then wonder why his sweet nonentity second wife helps cover it up.

The novel does suggest Rebecca, knowing she was dying, may have taunted Maxim to make him kill her, which again has the effect of absolving Maxim of responsibility and making a conveniently dead woman seem all-powerful and her murderer just another victim.

Though of course, we only have his word for any of this, or his claim that Rebecca was evil. The other two people who knew Rebecca well, Favell and Mrs Danvers, adored her and thought she was a free spirit who laughed at rules. The locals loved her. The only other living people who have negative memories of Rebecca are Ben, who has Down syndrome and an intellectual disability, and (kind of) Frank the estate manager, who seems to have resisted her seduction attempts and guesses the truth about the marriage and the murder.

Re the ending, I can absolutely see why living in a series of little continental hotels, listening to cricket and poring over the English papers, works dramatically as a kind of punishment/limbo, and is signalling the death of the English aristocratic/feudal way of life. It’s more that, in a novel that while it is part fairytale/Gothic novel, is also a realist country house novel, full of realist detail about servants, food, decor, estate management, there seems no particular reason why they can’t live in England, or at least make a permanent home in France or Italy, and have children to inherit.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 18/03/2024 09:12

Though of course, we only have his word for any of this, or his claim that Rebecca was evil. The other two people who knew Rebecca well, Favell and Mrs Danvers, adored her and thought she was a free spirit who laughed at rules

Rebecca IMO is the sort of person people either adore or hate and there's no half measures. I can imagine she intimidated a lot of women and dazzled husbands like Giles, who she flirted with and made them feel like they were the man of her dreams.

Sockdolager · 18/03/2024 09:24

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 18/03/2024 09:12

Though of course, we only have his word for any of this, or his claim that Rebecca was evil. The other two people who knew Rebecca well, Favell and Mrs Danvers, adored her and thought she was a free spirit who laughed at rules

Rebecca IMO is the sort of person people either adore or hate and there's no half measures. I can imagine she intimidated a lot of women and dazzled husbands like Giles, who she flirted with and made them feel like they were the man of her dreams.

That’s true that Bea is relieved ( if puzzled) that the second Mrs de Winter is a meek little girl, not an Amazonian seductress!

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