The Dark is Rising or Chronicles of Prydain?

[HelenaRavenclaw]

(I know these books are usually marketed as "children's books" but many adults still enjoy them. Since I'd be reading them as an adult I thought it better to post here instead of the Children's Books forum.)

Which series is better in your opinion if you've read both:
The Dark is Rising sequence by Susan Cooper or The Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander?

I'm interested in easy-to-read fantasy dealing with themes of Celtic mythology, which I know are present in both series. (Of course I'm familiar with Arthurian legends, stories from the Mabinogion, etc. from other sources so these "children's books" will not be my first foray into these realms.) I will say that I am someone who enjoyed Chronicles of Narnia, Harry Potter, and His Dark Materials far more than Lord of the Rings (which often felt like an elaborate exercise in world-building but didn't connect with the reader as well as the other series). I'm not interested in watching any film versions so please base your recommendations on the books only. Thank you!

@pollyhemlock Oh yes, I had exactly the same reaction. It is a horrible passage to read, and written in unsettling detail. It has tainted The Queen of Air and Darkness for me forever.

This thread reminded me of Alan Garner's The Owl Service. Not a series, quite a short book written for young adults reimagining the Welsh myth of Blodeuwedd. It's a good read.

@CatChant I see we have much in common beside our obvious affection for a particular fantasy author!

I also love The Owl Service. The class conflict in it has a really painful edge - the extent to which Roger and family look down on Gwyn for being working class, and Gwyn's deep resentment of that and of the barriers in front of him despite his ambition and intelligence.

@pollyhemlock Absolutely! And with Diana Wynne Jones too. You know without a doubt that Uncle Ralph is an irredeemable and doomed villain when he wants to kill Throgmorten, the Asheth Temple cat, to sell his organs for valuable potion ingredients.

The Owl Service is another of those wonderfully imaginative novels that linger in the memory for years. I still can’t see a certain style of china plate decoration without being reminded of it. Well worth a read.

Fire and Hemlock 🥰 another one we loved and read over and over.

maybe straying from the path a little but Charles de Lint’s Moonheart was another favourite.

i tried to read Boneland recently, but Alan Garner. It features Colin from the Weirdstone as an adult, but wrote it was hard going. I stopped quite early but might give it another go.

@CatChant Throgmorten is my all time favourite fictional cat .

I don’t think Boneland quite works, though like all Garner there’s some wonderful writing. I think the problem is that in Weirdstone and MoG Colin has no discernible personality ( the power of the books is in the narrative and landscape) whereas in Boneland he has almost too much.

Definitely TDIR!
Another big Diana Wynne-Jones fan here.

Another vote for TDIR. An amazing series I return to again and again. Nice to see so many of us who loved it as children and still love it as adults.

Just loving this! I adore Guy Gavriel Kay, the Sarantium ones are particular favourites... If you like the Fionavar Tapestry you might also enjoy the Barbara Hambly series which starts with the time of the dark... not dissimilar world building. Also If you like some of the suggestions in this thread you might also enjoy The Thief and it's follow ups the Queen of Attolia and The King of Attolia which are just incredible. By Megan Whalen Turner. Amazed that they're not better known or don't seem to be... Have read and re read them since discovering them by accident through giving them to my children! Oh and Katherine Kerr and the Deverry series... fabulous.

@pollyhemlock I like Throgmorten a lot too but he’s got competition from Benvenuto (The Magicians of Caprona), Brindle (What the Cat Told Me) and Tibbles (Dogsbody). DWJ really knew cats!

Oh and I’d happily give a home to Carbonel and Gobbolino too.

@CatChant Oh yes, Carbonel! Loved that book so much as a child. Gobbolino too, though I didn’t encounter him until I read the book to my DC. Another favourite was Nibbins, from John Masefield’s The Midnight Folk. One of our earliest family cats was called after him.

If you ever read 'H is for Hawk', this will shed light on the cruelty.

White had, lets say, some issues.

As I recall Garner came from a WC background, but went to a Grammar as he was very bright. I wonder if he experienced some prejudice reflected in the Owl Service?

''He was the first member of his family to receive anything more than a basic education, and he noted that this removed him from his "cultural background" and led to something of a schism with other members of his family, who "could not cope with me, and I could not cope with" them. Looking back, he remarked, "I soon learned that it was not a good idea to come home excited over irregular verbs"

He wrote a great autobiography called 'Where shall we run to?'

He's 89. I'm going to send a Christmas card to authors who I have loved this year and he is in the top 10. Amazing mind.

@DrMadelineMaxwell Thank you so much for the link to audio book.

Listening right now.

Will be doing so right through December. Feels like a Christmas present.

It's good, very good.

@Alltheyearround Yes, I have read H is for Hawk , and also , many years ago, The Goshawk, White’s own account of his ‘taming’ of the bird. There’s no doubt that he was a very complex and in many ways unpleasant person. Once and Future King is an undoubted classic but there are bits I find troubling. I don’t think he liked women much.

For any of you who loved childrens' fiction (including Alan Garner, Philip Pullman, etc), try the Oxford Story museum https://www.storymuseum.org.uk/

I was absolutely delighted to see one of the plates on show, which was the dinner service from which Alan Garner derived the idea of the plates / pattern in the Owl Service. I think the plates had belonged to his inlaws from memory.

The Owl Service plate - https://leavesandpages.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/original-owl-service-plate-alan-garner.jpg

Seems like The Dark is Rising is going to be a popular Christmas-time read for many of us! There's even a new thread about it now: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/what_were_reading/4952935-the-dark-is-rising

Maybe we should also have a Mumsnet TDIR readalong thread around Christmas for first-time (and seasoned) readers of the series!

Late, but another vote for tDIR though Prydain is also fun. I love so many of the books that have been named and would add:

GGK's Ysabel (YA)
Juliet Marillier, Sevenwaters series
Jo Walton, The King's Peace & The King's Name (Arthuriana)
Nicola Griffith, Hild is slightly more literary, but absolutely excellent

The RSC are doing Box of Delights as their Christmas production this year (I'm going to see it, and very excited - hoping it lives up to the BBC version, which I watch every Christmas). Wouldn't it be great if they did a really magical version of The Dark is Rising! Anyone know if it's been done before?

@tobyj I've been dithering as to booking tickets for the Box of Delights in case I'm disappointed, but think I will.
I don't think that there has been a theatre production - there was the terrible Seeker film but no stage I have heard of.

I love the Dark is Rising so much that I bought a class set then read it to my form last Xmas. I really enjoyed that.
Luckily I was in charge of both which books to read and the budget to buy them. We used to read everyday in form time.

Just popping on to recommend the British Library's fantasy exhibition which is on at the moment - they have one of the plates from the Owl Service, original manuscripts from DWJ, Neil Gaiman, Ursula le Guin etc - I spent a happy morning there a couple of weeks ago. Would link but their website's still down after the cyber attack!