I just read a terrible book

[Orangeis]

Bring me back, B A Paris.

What a load of absolute tosh. A man's partner dissapears, 6 years later he gets with her sister and lives with her. The big twist is.....the new girlfriend is actually the missing sister. He didn't realise this as she had a different hair do.
That's hours of my life I'll never get back. I feel like taking the book in to the back garden and burning the bugger.
What's your worst book and why?

And that’s great.

I love medical etc dramas because I don’t have to suspend my belief, I can enjoy not knowing loads of it is bull shit!

I absolutely accept that people in historical novels won't speak accurately. That's necessary to allow us to engage with the story as if we were contemporaries. That's why I don't mind, for example, when they cast a Catherine Parr who's much older than the real one was, in order to make us respond to her in the same way her contemporaries would have. Or change the dresses a bit so that we realise Anne Boleyn was wearing clothes that were considered sexier and more exotic than standard.

But they need to do it smoothly and in a way that doesn't shatter the illusion. A Tudor courtier using the word "numpty" is too much. The Famous Five saying, "You bet!" is ridiculous (I realise that's not Blyton's original).

I never watch hospital dramas with doctors because they make it unbearable!

But surely even watching a police drama you think ‘hmm that fbi agent didn’t even read the suspect his rights’ or ‘hey Luther could never get this case through because he evidence tampered!’

Why do you think people who watch a period piece are stupid or don’t know anything but you don’t think you’re stupid/ignorant for not knowing that of course doctors aren’t all shagging in the on call room in between heart bypasses that take about 5 minutes?

I agree that it isn't about being "up to speed with what’s historically accurate" - I'm happy to watch Downton despite knowing a lot of it is a load of cobblers. I think there are two aspects: 1. whether you are supposed to think that it's realistic and 2. whether you have detailed knowledge about it so find it hard to overlook. In the case of Jojo Rabbit, for example, although it's meant to be saying something serious about real things, there's enough fantasy in it that it doesn't feel like they're trying to con you when they add nonsense. But because I have detailed knowledge about Germany, the nonsense was so annoying to me that I couldn't ignore it, even though I wanted to. Whereas with Downton, spotting the nonsense is part of the fun, if anything: I have no skin in that game.

I didn’t say stupid! 🤔

i have squat all idea about the internal workings of the FBI or hospitals so I can generally just enjoy whereas historical fiction i find myself constantly thinking “oh as if?” “That would NEVER have happened” “what did she just say???” “Oh come on!!” 😂

I guess we all have areas of inaccuracy that bother us more than others. Eg the west wing is a total fantasy but to me very watchable. It's interesting that it's quite dated in its attitudes now, being 20 years old and written really about the 90s. It would be odd seeing it remade now while still trying to be about the 90s, the mental furniture would be wrong.

It has to be said I don't watch all that much telly - some documentaries, some movies, bit of reality TV/gameshows - and I like reading books that were written at the time they're about, or nonfiction.

My mum would leave the room if we had a war film, or other military type things, on because me (was in the Army) and my dad (career soldier) used to critique everything.

This is a whole popular thing on YouTube.

Generally with books and films I do suspend a lot of belief - but occasionally something jars so much it just throws you out it - I was forgiving a lot in really trashy book and then we got to potatoes in a 14 century Scottish kitchen - and that was apparently was my line.

I'm as gullible as a medieval peasant when watching movies (I don't watch telly); as long as the story engages, I'm open to all kinds of manipulation.

One film that jarred even with me, though, was Titanic. Yeah, sure, she would be below decks shagging him and prancing around without a thought for honour or reputation or - let's face it - contraception. The worst bit is when they're having sex in a car and she gives the finger to someone through the steamed-up windows. I half expected her to start blowing bubble gum and offering him a spliff.

Back to books: David Mitchell got a bit of a pasting upthread, but I think he's worth reading for his moments of utter brilliance... like the character of Timothy Cavendish in Cloud Atlas, or the awkward sex scene in Number 9 Dream, which knocks Molly Bloom's and yes I said yes I will Yes into a cocked hat.

It's funny and true! Even 2 hundred years later it would be a little awkward to date somebody from work who was there in the capacity of maintenance or security or something. Don't care if I sound a bitch, I know it would be perceived as omg kind of gossip. Not saying I would never do it and tbh the awkwardness goes if you know each other and are certain it's worth it/going to last.
But 2 hundred years ago no woman was this brave, she couldn't afford to be. Gossip could destroy her.

the awkward sex scene in Number 9 Dream, which knocks Molly Bloom's and yes I said yes I will Yes into a cocked hat

It's even more bizarre than that? I'm no prude, but she really is into some weird stuff.

I was forgiving a lot in really trashy book and then we got to potatoes in a 14 century Scottish kitchen - and that was apparently was my line.

oh god, one of my lines (depending on mood) is people slamming a magazine into a weapon. Better still, making a big deal about having "one up the spout" jamming in a new full magazine then chucking the weapon on the floor (drops it, it gets knocked out of their hand, chucking it over to someone...)

Or bad radio procedure. Military people saying "repeat" over a radio get me actually frothing

people slamming a magazine into a weapon

Just shows what an ignoramus I am about all things military, I was trying to picture some sort of magic trick with a rolled-up Good Housekeeping transforming into a sword.

"Beat me on the bottom with a Woman's Weekly!"

haha yes, back to Molly Bloom 😂

Just shows what an ignoramus I am about all things military, I was trying to picture some sort of magic trick with a rolled-up Good Housekeeping transforming into a sword.

The worst bit is when they're having sex in a car and she gives the finger to someone through the steamed-up windows. I half expected her to start blowing bubble gum and offering him a spliff

I'm struggling to see how that's the worst bit when it doesn't actually happen.

Really?! Did I hallucinate it?

I just looked up a clip on YouTube, and it's not included in that... but I have this memory of someone coming along later with a torch and shining it on the car and she gives them the finger. I don't have it on DVD to check and even if I did, am not sure I could be arsed looking at that annoying film!

Maybe I've just gone mad

She does it while they're going down in the lift.

I didn't know it was anachronistic, though. I thought the origins of rude finger signs were medieval.

there's a bit where we see her hand against the steamy glass. I presume it's meant to indicate she's climaxed.

Ah, so it was in the lift! I must have got it all mixed up with the car scene, which is equally unlikely.

It's an old-fashioned gesture, but somehow I just can't see a woman of her class, at that time, adopting it. I'm thinking how shocking it would have been for my mum's generation, working class.

Kate Moss at Glastonbury shows more decorum. (Not knocking KM at Glasto, there's a tent I'd like to join!)

I love Monica Dickens and Stella Gibbons but there are some bits where you have to remember when they were written. My favourites are The Happy Prisoner (MD) and Nightingale Wood (SG). Funny, nostalgic and well-written (and old).

the copy I'm reading is a Penguin, printed in 1960. Actually older than me.

But it is lovely to see the language and attitudes of the day, unfiltered by modern eyes. In fact, that's a good idea for a new book thread

Yes, could contribute to that thread...the most recently-written book I've read is Wolf Hall (which I loved) but I should make more of an effort.

It's an old-fashioned gesture, but somehow I just can't see a woman of her class, at that time, adopting it. I'm thinking how shocking it would have been for my mum's generation, working class.

That's the whole point of the film though - Rose rebelling against class/gender expectations and gaining her freedom through Jack. Elsewhere he teaches her how to spit.

It's ridiculously modern, though. I mean.... the very idea that a woman of any class could "gain freedom" from social conventions, like she wouldn't have to face the music at some point. Her whole life would be ruined.

But it's not even about consequences and what other people would think. She would have self-censored the slightest impulse, if indeed she ever felt any, to behave like that.

I'm in my 60s, and although I didn't grow up wearing corsets and layered petticoats, blushing and dropping hankies and pretending to faint, I definitely grew up with a deep sense of shame/judgement around sex and social anxiety around blokes, and would have had trouble behaving like that in the 1970s, let alone 1912. I wonder if the film appeals to younger folk who didn't grow up with these hang-ups.

Now you're going to tell me you're in your 80s and I'm a proper weirdo! 🤣