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Typos in books

78 replies

Kiwimommyinlondon · 01/01/2023 11:56

Just finished Everyone is still alive by Cathy Retzenbrink. Had high hopes for it but found it abysmal. Frustrating to see a number of typos in it too eg main character is Juliet and is referred to as Julie. Makes me lose faith in the book when I see that. Bizarrely, the proofreader is acknowledged in the book too 🤔 Anyone else as picky as me?

OP posts:
piedbeauty · 07/01/2023 21:15

Is that a joke? "As little as £16 per hour"? I would kill for that salary, just reading manuscripts all day. I work in a school office for shit money and it's soooo stressful. Are you seriously trying to tell me that there are people who are paid as much as £16 per hour who do as shit a job as is described on here.

@CurlyhairedAssassin - 😂😂 - but if you're freelance, your hourly rate has to cover you for holidays, time off sick, etc. We can't work 37 hours a week every week!! And an editor also doesn't work on paid work 8 hours a day - we have to do marketing, admin, accounts, send invoices, reply to emails, do CPD - lots of non-billable hours. So our hourly rate has to cover all that!

The Chartered Institute of Editing and Proofreading has suggested minimum rates, and these start at £26/hour for proofreading, to cover all the items I mention above! See https://www.ciep.uk/resources/suggested-minimum-rates/

And why: The rates assume freelance professionals running their own business and therefore include a factor to allow for costs that an employee does not have to pay but are paid for by their employer, such as holidays and sickness absence, National Insurance, pension provision, continuing professional development (CPD), office space and utility bills, software and subscriptions, and business equipment and supplies. The freelance hourly rates are therefore not directly comparable with hourly employee rates. (Taken from the website above)

What we do is not just 'reading manuscripts all day'. There's a lot more to it. See www.ciep.uk/about/faqs/working-as-proofreader-or-editor

piedbeauty · 07/01/2023 21:18

@Abra1t - yes! En or em rules? Elision or none in dates? Widows? Rivers? Orphans? Are so running heads correct? Which style guide to follow? Harvard or Vancouver referencing?

Not to mention checking for things like non-sexist language, inclusive language, ensuring a text is aimed at the right level for a reader...

Abra1t · 07/01/2023 21:31

Yes, I only dabble in business editing now but I take my hats off to publishing copy editors and proofreaders. They have saved me from myself.

DameHelena · 07/01/2023 22:12

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 07/01/2023 20:31

£16 an hour is about £30,000 full time! But of course this is Mumsnet where anything less than £80k is a 'shit salary' ...

To you, CurlyhairedAssassin and anyone else thinking this: being freelance is not like being salaried. You don’t get sick pay or holiday pay or paid parental leave. You don’t get a pension. All of that (plus taxes of course) has to come out of your hourly rate.
Plus, there may be weeks or months when work is sporadic or non-existent. And even when you do have adequate work, payments may be made weeks late (and sometimes only after much chasing, which damages professional relationships and takes a lot of time). For both of these reasons, your cash flow is frequently all over the place.

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 07/01/2023 22:23

DameHelena · 07/01/2023 22:12

To you, CurlyhairedAssassin and anyone else thinking this: being freelance is not like being salaried. You don’t get sick pay or holiday pay or paid parental leave. You don’t get a pension. All of that (plus taxes of course) has to come out of your hourly rate.
Plus, there may be weeks or months when work is sporadic or non-existent. And even when you do have adequate work, payments may be made weeks late (and sometimes only after much chasing, which damages professional relationships and takes a lot of time). For both of these reasons, your cash flow is frequently all over the place.

I'm not saying it's a marvellous rate of pay when everything is considered, but not all salaried jobs offer sick pay above SSP or a pension with employer contributions, parental leave isn't relevant to everyone; and of course taxes apply to salaried employees.

If you deducted, say, six weeks' pay for holidays including bank holidays, and a pessimistic four weeks' pay for potential sick leave, you'd still be earning significantly more than min wage.

Again, I understand the lack of security and possibly erratic payment schedules, but that can be offset by the freedom of being able to choose one's own hours, not having your holiday requests declined, being able to work from home and so on.

Eixample · 07/01/2023 22:28

piedbeauty · 07/01/2023 19:39

But a beta reader is the first step for an author, before copy editing and proofreading. Why are you looking for errors?

An alpha reader is the first reader or in the first group of readers; a beta reader comes second.

piedbeauty · 07/01/2023 22:32

@Eixample - no one ever talks about alpha readers; it's only beta readers.

piedbeauty · 07/01/2023 22:37

If you deducted, say, six weeks' pay for holidays including bank holidays, and a pessimistic four weeks' pay for potential sick leave, you'd still be earning significantly more than min wage.
Again, I understand the lack of security and possibly erratic payment schedules, but that can be offset by the freedom of being able to choose one's own hours, not having your holiday requests declined, being able to work from home and so on

Hmm. See my post from earlier on. Yes, you work from home, but then you have higher electricity and heating costs to offset...

Yes, you can take holidays, but without being paid for them!!

And proofreading is not a minimum wage job!! Most proofreaders have a degree. They should all have specific proofreading training. It is a skilled job that not everyone is suited for!

DameHelena · 08/01/2023 13:55

‘being able to choose one's own hours’ sometimes actually means (for me at least) working weekends and bank holidays to meet deadlines, and schedules changing so that projects and deadlines clash and you have to put in extra and/or unsociable hours, or, at the other extreme, being left high and dry with periods of No work and therefore no income. And ‘being able to work from home’ has advantages, yes, but also downsides including but not limited to the ones pied highlights.

IDontWantToBeAPie · 08/01/2023 13:57

I find them in almost every book I read. Even by incredible authors. Found four in a local newspaper the other day too.

Irritating. Wish they'd hire me as a sub 😂

puppydisaster · 08/01/2023 14:03

I have found my people!

Also audio books with words mispronounced! Recently heard the clanger of the Oxford college Magdelen pronounced as written. You can forgive an actor for not knowing but surely there should be a producer picking this up.

piedbeauty · 08/01/2023 14:38

that can be offset by the freedom of being able to choose one's own hours, not having your holiday requests declined, being able to work from home and so on

Having to market yourself constantly to ensure you have enough work, having to juggle work around family life, working weekends or late nights for rush jobs, not having colleagues to hand extra work to. It can take two years to build up enough clients so that you have constant work, and many editors/proofreaders find it takes them longer.

Being self employed might sound like a laugh, but it's a lot of hard work. Maternity pay if you're self employed is a tiny fraction of what most employed women are entitled to, you don't get paid for taking time off for antenatal appointments, etc. Of course there are benefits, like being able to be there when dc get home from school, taking time to go on school trips with dc etc if you want to, but it's hard work.

Kiwimommyinlondon · 08/01/2023 15:20

Glad it’s not just me. So irked by this book - I mean it was rubbish even without the typos - I usually pass on to friends but I can’t bear to in this case.

OP posts:
PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 08/01/2023 16:00

Maternity pay if you're self employed is a tiny fraction of what most employed women are entitled to, you don't get paid for taking time off for antenatal appointments, etc.

A benefit for some, but totally irrelevant if you have completed your family, or are child-free/childless.

Squiblet · 08/01/2023 16:19

I used to work as a freelance copy-editor for indie authors (self-publishers), and charged £28-£34 an hour. But I never cleared as much as £30k p.a.

As others have said, there's all the admin time needed ... and it's difficult to copy-edit for more than four hours at a stretch, because you lose concentration. Plus there are gaps between jobs.

Anyone thinking of training in the field should check out ciep.uk

piedbeauty · 08/01/2023 16:41

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 08/01/2023 16:00

Maternity pay if you're self employed is a tiny fraction of what most employed women are entitled to, you don't get paid for taking time off for antenatal appointments, etc.

A benefit for some, but totally irrelevant if you have completed your family, or are child-free/childless.

Sure, but an example of how being freelance isn't all roses!

SmugglersHaunt · 08/01/2023 16:43

I have the 'Happy Like Murderers' book by Gordon Burn (about the Fred West murders - grim, but very good). On the cover it has a quote: 'Startlingy original' - I can't believe it went to print with a missing L

IcakethereforeIam · 08/01/2023 16:56

Reading a book today that has 'rooves', surely it's 'roofs'. Looks ridiculous. Unless a roove is something that was commonly seen on the rooftops of Victorian England.

All the posts about copy editing were interesting and sad, you deserve a decent living.

piedbeauty · 08/01/2023 17:21

SmugglersHaunt · 08/01/2023 16:43

I have the 'Happy Like Murderers' book by Gordon Burn (about the Fred West murders - grim, but very good). On the cover it has a quote: 'Startlingy original' - I can't believe it went to print with a missing L

Ouch!! The cover is usually proofread in-house, not by a proofreader, and it's often the last thing to be approved and might be done in a rush...

TwoMonthsOff · 08/01/2023 17:29

@Riverlee
TV Shows can have this too, Mrs Maisel being the worst offender the language anachronisms annoyed me so much I couldn’t continue watching it

iklboo · 08/01/2023 21:23

Re: rooves

In the U.S., roofs is the standard plural of roof; elsewhere rooves is fairly common but becoming less so. The same holds true for an increasing number of words ending in “f.”

It was the same for dwarves / dwarfs, hoofs / hooves as well.

CrossPurposes · 08/01/2023 21:31

TwoMonthsOff · 08/01/2023 17:29

@Riverlee
TV Shows can have this too, Mrs Maisel being the worst offender the language anachronisms annoyed me so much I couldn’t continue watching it

You have possibly read this blog post about the anachronisms: montclairsoci.blogspot.com/2019/01/mrs-maisel-expletives-then-and-now.html?m=1

The overuse of the f word drove me crazy even before I found out it was as overused as it seemed.

iklboo · 08/01/2023 23:42

Is it even possible to be a proof-reader with a full time 'day' job? I'd have thought probably not, especially if there are tight deadlines?

TwoMonthsOff · 08/01/2023 23:54

@CrossPurposes
thanks for the link, explains it much better than I could, I must admit I only managed to watch two episodes I think, and I found it too irritating, I was thinking at this rate they will be mentioning facebook! I think it distracted me from the excessive use of the F word

Eixample · 09/01/2023 08:03

piedbeauty · 07/01/2023 22:32

@Eixample - no one ever talks about alpha readers; it's only beta readers.

You aren’t correct about that. Many writers, particularly the amateur ones, skip that stage, but particularly very successful full-time self-publishers may have an alpha reader first.