📚 "Rather Dated" bookclub choice for January: Elizabeth Jane Howard, The Beautiful Visit 📚

[frustratedacademic]

Happy New Year!

Welcome to the Mumsnet 'Rather Dated' Book Group, where we will be reading and discussing fiction from the 1930s to the 1990s that would have been described as 'contemporary' in its day.

We are reading one book a month. Spoilers are permitted.

We started the chat thanks to a thread started by @ImJustMadAboutSaffron (www.mumsnet.com/talk/what_were_reading/4624300-the-mumsnet-rather-dated-book-group-all-welcome-to-join?reply=122686322) where we kicked off with a discussion of Penelope Lively, The Road to Lichfield.

Currently we have these separate threads:

November: Anita Brookner, A Start in Life
December: Margaret Drabble: A Summer Bird-Cage
And this current one for January: Elizabeth Jane Howard, The Beautiful Visit.

Here's an excerpt from the book to whet your appetite (very reminiscent of the author's Cazalet Chronicles, I think:

"We walked back through the arch, pushed open the green front door, and were in the large hall. I shall never forget the smell of that house. Logs, lavender and damp, the old scent was of a house that has been full of flowers for so many years that the very pollen and flower pots stay behind intangibly enchanting - candles and grapes - weak aged taffeta stretched on the chairs - drops of sherry left in fragile shallow glasses - nectarines and strawberries - the warm earthy confidential odour of enormous books and butterfly smell of the pages, a combination of leather and moth - dense glassy mahogany ripe with polishing and the sun - guns and old coats - smooth dead fur on the glaring sentimental deers' heads - beeswax, brown sugar and smoke - it smelled of everything I first remember seeing there, and I shall never forget it."

I really enjoyed your review, Stella and I agree with all your points. It did seem like a diary.

Yes. What was that about the uncle? Was he thinking that the earth was flat and wishing to prove it?

I'm about half way through, Rupert has just left to go to war. I must admit I wasn't initially that taken with the first three or four chapters, finding it stilted and aimless. However, I'm really enjoying it now, and 'getting' it. I think Rosamund Pilcher must have read it as I'm getting a whiff of Coming Home with the descriptions of the sprawling beautiful family.

It's taken me a while to think this one through, but here's what I say. I thought the episodic structure worked really well - somehow directing the progress of the narrator's growing maturity. The visit to the country house was so brilliant in opening an exciting prospect of the wonder of a big, happy family (and I can speak from experience here). The time she spends as a companion is quite bonkers, but still great in the way you feel such relief that she manages to escape. And yes I recognise the flaws inherent to a first novel, including the inevitable trope of her turning out be a natural writer, and lastly, who knows what is with the crazy uncle, and whether he believes the world is flat or whatever, but I enjoyed it, and indeed, this was my first step to reading all of Howard's early novels, which are all highly recommended.

Finished a couple of days ago. I've read the of EJH books now and loved all three. None of those three were the Calzet novels so I must track those down now.

This one was slightly different to the other two I've read in that it was very episodic. It also didn't seem to go anywhere while reading it but when you step back and think about it as a whole it does make sense and most of the componants work together.

Generally the overall sadness of lack of choices that the women had or the trapped marriage that deb found herself in rang true and in the end after the war we were left with dissatisfied and frustrated women and very broken men. I'm glad the narrator escaped at the end.

I'm a huge Cazalet Chronicles fan so was interested to read this. I agree that it does read like an early work; a bit disjointed and at times overwrought. But memorable for all that.

The contrast between the narrator and her sister was really interesting. The former was constantly dissatisfied and railing against the constraints and boredom of her everyday existence, whereas her sister seemed almost saintly in her devotion to her parents and perfect behaviour. However, later in the novel cracks begin to show, when the sister reveals herself as much less fulfilled than she has seemed and in fact unrealistically desperate to marry Rupert. Both young women are searching for meaning and satisfaction in their lives; the narrator's sister just does a better job, most of the time, of pretending that she's happy with her lot.

The whole lady's companion section is quite strange and uncomfortable. I actually believed in her inability to tackle the issue directly however, and that escaping during the night seemed a sensible solution. She's very young and inexperienced and struggling to cope with all sorts of situations; that side of her character is very well described.

And Ian .. the "love affair" reminded me a lot of the rash of WW2 romantic films where the dialogue bears no relation to how people really speak (and I doubt they spoke like that 80 years ago either) : e.g.

"You little fool! Don't you realise that I ....... love you?"
"Oh darling!"
"Heppy darling?"
"Terrible terribly heppy darling. Heppier than I could ever have dreamed were possible"

Poor old Ian. I wasn't sure I really believed in him. Gerald's death, however, was all too horrendously real.

So it was a real mixed bag. I'll remember it though and glad I read it.

Love the dialogue 😄

Just finished it. Well, I did rather love it, although I am quite flummoxed by what exactly happened at the end. Elspeth (love this character and my daughter is called Elspeth), is what? Trying to prove or disprove the world is flat? Anyway, I’m glad our narrator got away. The bit when Elspeth said she’d simply recreated the sadness of her home life in the bedsit in Paddington was very clever and so true! Our narrator knew she was unhappy and why, but not how to change or fix it.

I enjoyed the part about being the ladies companion, it was such a good description of feeling stifled and controlled, yet also out of one’s depth. It reminded me of visiting my perpetually angry and disappointed grandmother in her overheated home. Something I did out of a sense of duty, and with no joy. That feeling of release when I could leave; I understood how the narrator felt.

I think we were meant to think that Ian wouldn’t have made her happy, although I don’t know. She convinced herself to love him, probably safe in the knowledge he wouldn’t return.

Very glad I’ve read one of her books now.

Thenk you for that marvellous dialogue @highlandcoo , it has made me very heppy!

Yes have to agree

Mind you it was a bit of a non event at times

I haven't read this before

Shame Ian died as he seemed decent

Rupert was of his time

We never knew her name did we

Sometimes it was hard to know who some of the characters were like Gerald

You could see it was a pre runner for the Cazalet chronicles

I'm very late to this thread! I started reading the book before Christmas but initially struggled to get into it, so only just finished it.

I interpreted the book as a series of escapes, or perhaps false starts, as the narrator tries on a series of possible futures. It begins with the escape to the Lancings. She initially finds their life entirely captivating, but the second visit shatters the illusion and she is able to put them behind her and escape from a potentially unhappy marriage to Rupert. And then in between there are the escapes from Agnes' set, Rupert's studio, Mrs Border, Ian (would she really have come to love him? He seemed awfully intense!), her family home, and finally the boredom of her life in London. Given the character had recently started writing I did wonder if the escape on the ship literally happened, or if it was intended as a metaphor, that she had finally found an escape in her own imagination.

I initially found the dialogue and interactions between the characters rather stilted and unnatural, but perhaps this was intentional, to highlight the young narrator's naivety and confusion about human relationships.

As with others, I was struck by the limited options available to women of the period. It was interesting how when she was offered the job in the library her family wouldn't allow her to take it, presumably because that type of work was not considered appropriate for a woman of her social class.

Given the character had recently started writing I did wonder if the escape on the ship literally happened, or if it was intended as a metaphor, that she had finally found an escape in her own imagination.

Interesting point, it did seem an odd ending so this view did make sense

I liked the book, but like others was very struck with the lack of opportunity for women at the time beyond marriage.

In some respects our much faster pace of life means we miss out on simple pleasures now. I can’t imagine a visit to country relations being life changing anymore.

I don't know why people describe books as 'dated'. I'm not taking a swipe at you OP, I just mean generally. A book is either good or bad. The Illiad is nearly 3,000 years old, but it's still a masterpiece, and vastly superior to 99% of contemporary writing. I totally agree with Harold Bloom that the canon is outside of time and space – it exists in an eternal present. The Canterbury Tales, Pride and Prejudice, Plato's dialogues, the Bhagavad Gita, Kipling's Jungle Book, etc, are just as beautiful and vivid and relevant today as they were when they were written.

You’re right and that’s kind of the point of the Mumsnet Rather Dated book club - to revisit and champion books that some may dismiss as ‘rather dated’. See the main thread here which explains the background of it all: www.mumsnet.com/talk/what_were_reading/4624300-the-mumsnet-rather-dated-book-group-all-welcome-to-join?page=1