📚The Mumsnet 'Rather Dated' Book Group - All welcome to join📚

[Antarcticant]

Welcome to the Mumsnet 'Rather Dated' Book Group, where we will be reading and discussing fiction from the 1930s to the 1990s that would have been described as 'contemporary' in its day.

The best introduction to the 'rather dated' concept would be to read the wonderful thread which inspired this group:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/what_were_reading/4596284-rather-dated?reply=119670989

To summarise, a number of posters expressed disappointment that literature of the 20th Century is often dismissed as 'rather dated' because society has moved on from many of the values and lifestyles described.

We decided to create a reading group where the literary merits of such fiction can be appreciated, with any 'rather dated' elements being a point of interest rather than a reason to dismiss a novel.

We will be reading one book a month. Our first book, for September, will be the book that inspired the original thread:

The Road to Lichfield by Penelope Lively

Please do join the thread whether you want to take part in the discussion or just place mark to follow it.

Fellow Rather Dated people, please add anything important I might have missed!

(With huge thanks to ImJustMadAboutSaffron for the original thread and idea )

I also thought this contrasted beautifully/sharply with a passage earlier in the book, when Don puts his hand on Anne's leg when they're in bed, and she replies 'yes that would be nice' - showing just how dull and formulaic their sex life had become, as well as how submissive she was in their relationship.

I've just bought a copy of Black Narcissus, but I'm going to wait to read it till nearer the time we discuss it, otherwise I'll forget and move on to my next book!

Very good point, BIWI. There is a lot of complexity in a book that has relatively little action.

I think she was passive-aggressive in terms of the affair with David, but you're right in that she allowed things to happen. A PP said this:

Don's pragmatic and rather emotionless reaction towards the end of the book reminded me of the final scene of Brief Encounter when the husband implies that he has been aware of his wife's attraction to someone else. "Thank you for coming back to me" is his last statement and this sort of understatement is frequently found in TRTL too.

I find it interesting to look back with a 2022 viewpoint on a time in history that I wasn't even born. I imagine him saying "Oh well, old thing" and just plodding on as indeed Anne would, for the reasons you've outline.

I’ve got my copy of black narcissis on the way too ☺️

I thought the brother was a good foil, letting us see her past through different eyes. I certainly was relieved he wasn't too ill!

I liked her relationship with her brother and thought he was the most interesting of the men in the book. Maybe because he was the most modern in his attitudes.

I suppose his illness was an echo of her father's illness, so many things were repeated in different way (Don's touch vs David's touch, the trip to Gloucester vs the holiday in Scotland, the two trips to Coventry, the repeats of the places on the drive etc etc).

I’ve just finished The Road to Lichfield.

I have really been enjoying the way Penelope writes, it wasn’t my first book of hers, I ve also read Family Album and several children’s book.

Her prose is subtle but descriptive; I could really see the locations and have a sense of the personalities. I really liked her passive aggressive friend Sandra, she was amusing.

The importance of history, how we view our own history and how we decide what history to keep or teach was interesting and gave opportunity to consider how we view our own parents and their lives.

I’m not sure I can handle Black Narcissus!

I've had to name change since first joining and have only finished today because events of the last week or so conspired against me, leaving me with very little time to read.

I really enjoyed The Road to Lichfield and found Lively very similar to Anne Tyler with her ability to write so astutely and tightly about the small lives of ordinary people.

The repeated car journeys resonated with me. I used to commute 2 and a half hours each way to work every day and her portrayal of how Anne came to know the minute details of the drive is spot on. Ditto the occasional references to suddenly being at the end of your journey without really noticing the time passing, because you're on auto pilot.

I was interested to read all your comments on Don's reaction to the affair. I felt that he knew he'd been a somewhat lacklustre husband, and that, along with her father's death, and his reserved nature (given that his main response to finding out was embarrassment) meant that he was content to plod along together as long as it was quietly put aside. I think the shame and hassle of divorce would have seemed the worse option to him. Perhaps at that time people were more likely to protect their outer image to the detriment of their inner feelings?

I thought the parallels of the affairs, decay, the passage of time, knowing one's parents as people with separate lives, preserving memory, were beautifully done. It surprising how many parallel strands she wove through such a short story. I think many modern writers would end up with something bloated and overly long in the same circumstances.

Oh and I very much enjoyed some of the references to salaries and prices. A senior partner on £9/10k. Looking at houses around the £35k mark. Made me grimace a bit!

And to things I had to Google.

"Tow-haired" was new to me. As was the map measuring wheel (an opisometer I think?)

I also liked seeing phone written as the abbreviation 'phone

"I think many modern writers would end up with something bloated and overly long in the same circumstances"

I often feel a modern writer has been told by their publishers to add another 100 pages. Mostly ending up as detrimental to the book.

@tobee Yes that's probably true. I wonder if there was less pressure on writers to hit certain word counts back then.

I'm enjoying the continuing comments on The Road to Lichfield coming in. I'll take a pass on Black Narcissus, I'm afraid. Not in the mood. Currently enjoying a Joanna
Trollope, The Other Family who's much more than an "Aga saga" writer than she's been horribly tagged. Spot on in her descriptions of family dynamics.

I agree about Joanna Trollope's novels. I really enjoy them and think she's an astute observer of relationships generally. As for the 'Aga sagas' tag - what's wrong with detailed evocations of domestic life? I think the critics who dismiss novels of this kind are really dismissing what they perceive as 'women's worlds'.

@MotherofPearl I too love Joanna Trollope, I always find there is something that leaves a lingering memory about a lot of her books, a bit like Ann Tyler or Kate Atkinson.

About about two decades ago when there were was a bit of a rage for a group of authors getting together for charity and each writing a chapter of a book, one was set on a cruise ship, and I remember the person who wrote the article speculating about how Joanna Trollope would introduce an Aga onto the cruise ship.

I also love Joanna Trollope books, I think if you enjoy Penelope then JT would be a good contender. The Men and the Girls has always stayed in my memory.

When are we going to start discussing the next book @Antarcticant? I need to make sure I know when to read it!

We may as well stay with the 25th each month unless anyone wants to change this, @BIWI .

That's fine by me - just need to time my reading!

I've started Black Narcissus but seem to be making very slow progress. I need to crack on if I'm going to finish it by the 25th.

Me too! Haven't started yet and still not half way through reading my current book!

Need to get off my phone!

Placemarking!

My copy of Black Narcissus arrived this morning! I’m sitting reading on my sunny porch, one chapter read so far.

Bit late to the finish post here but I enjoyed this and have loved reading all the comments. I'd only read Moon Tiger before and loved that, more than this.

I really like her depth of description and the way that nature and the changing seasons were entwined with the story. The flowers and birds and English countryside that feature throughout.
Like others, the map reading and endless road discussions were very nostalgic. The history drawn into the plot and the idea of knowing so little really of each other, especially in those days when people weren't very good at "feelings".

Agree with others that David wasn't particularly well drawn, or Don. I'd recommend Moon Tiger to people who liked this. It has some similar themes but is a bit more polished.

Looking forward to more dated books!

Hi Stokey! I have 'Moon Tiger' lined up on the Kindle. Looking forward to it when I get around to it :)

I'm a great fan of Moon Tiger too. Reread it every few years. As I get older my perspective on the theme of looking back on a life (well lived, hopefully) shifts quite significantly.