Okay. So this is the THIRD time I've tried to read Wolf Hall ....

[FleetwoodRaincoat]

I can't believe anyone has actually got all the way through it.

I'm equally bored, confused and fed up with too many men called Thomas.

Please tell me I'm not the only one .....

I really loved it. Vivid descriptions of the period, hilarious turns of phrase and some beautiful parts where he reflects on his dead daughter. I loved the Anne Boleyn parts too.

Some have mentioned CJ Samson, I couldn’t get into that at all but it’s always talked about on MN.

@pickingdaisies

I picked up Beyond Black and gave up after one chapter. Tedious. There's no way I'm going to try anything else she wrote especially anything really long and continued over three books. I absolutely loved Milkman although it took me a few pages to settle into the style.

I think BB is her best novel. It’s brilliantly nasty and frightening, though. I once taught it and had students outraged by its depiction of Princess Diana, and some others completely freaked out by it. One mature student living somewhere remote with her young children said she’d slept with the lights on after reading it.

Threeleaper maybe I should have persevered a little longer!
I hardly ever give up on a book even if I'm not enjoying it (Ulysses is one of the few, oh and A Brief History of Time - I discovered my intellectual limits with that one!)
There's something about reading in this lockdown though - I need soothing or intriguing, not difficult and/or grim)

I agree Beyond Black is brilliant, but it is very dark, and the unwanted, irritating apparitions of Princess Diana to Alison the medium and the way she's characterised are both brilliant and incredibly nasty.

Put it this way, what goes on in BB makes the machinations of the Tudor court under an increasingly maniacal (and homicidal) Henry VII look positively cosy!

But I can see why someone might find BB unpalatable. Agree with someone up the thread saying Hilary Mantel's earlier work had a particular kind of malevolent nastiness -- BB feels totally from that era in some ways, but done far better.

And yes, I've definitely been reading things I wouldn't usually read in lockdown. Maybe not cosier, necessarily, but I'm maybe skewing plottier and avoiding dark rereads?

Yeah, I found BB arguably too good the atmosphere was so thick and oppressive, and I don't like my novels to give me nightmares. So I stopped.

So BB has just been rescued out of the destined-for-charity-shop bag! (The Testaments is staying in there though. So disappointing. I paid full price for it too)

@pickingdaisies

So BB has just been rescued out of the destined-for-charity-shop bag! (The Testaments is staying in there though. So disappointing. I paid full price for it too)

I feel all empowered now, as if I personally picked Hilary Mantel out of a skip.

On the basis of this thread I've bought BB for the Audible. I better not be disappointed .

Incidentally I listened to her French Revolution novel this way - I pick my Audible selection based on length so they are good value - and enjoyed it in a way I doubt I would have if reading the book.

Although I don't think The Mirror and The Light would work on Audible. I had to do a lot of flicking to and fro to try and figure out who the characters were.

I can't get into it either and I really wish I could- the people who recommend it to me love it and are sure I would love it too. I'm not sure why it doesn't grab me. It just doesn't!

@rookiemere

On the basis of this thread I've bought BB for the Audible. I better not be disappointed . Incidentally I listened to her French Revolution novel this way - I pick my Audible selection based on length so they are good value - and enjoyed it in a way I doubt I would have if reading the book.

Although I don't think The Mirror and The Light would work on Audible. I had to do a lot of flicking to and fro to try and figure out who the characters were.

A Place of Greater Safety is the one HM novel I absolutely cannot get on with. I am her biggest fan, but it makes me scream inwardly 'This needs a BRUTAL edit!'

Life's too short to read books you find boring!

Just finished The Mirror and the Light and I'm bereft .

I get why people find them difficult, I found I just had to not think about the writing style and keep on reading. You assume that every time you read the word He, she's talking about Cromwell and you get into the swing of it. I am awestruck at her talent, I couldn't imagine ever writing something that clever, it is also very funny in parts which helps!

I loved A Place of Greater Safety too.

Having said all that I don't see any point in forcing it if you are not enjoying it.

Wolf Hall totally split my book group, it was actually quite interesting.
Some of the people who were most vocal about how well they read really struggled with it.
I really loved them, as pp said I actually felt really sad when I finished 'TMATL,they will stay with me forever,

But honestly if you are not enjoying WH then stop,life is too short

Bored stupid by it.
But, for other books that I have also struggled with, I have found audio books helped (didn't work with this one, it really is tooooo dull).

I loved Wolf Hall and Being up the Bodies. Every other character being called Thomas makes it confusing but it's easy enough to read. Probably easier if you know something about Tudor History, though, especially in the first book when there's lots more about other noble families and it's all a bit convoluted. I think BUTB is easier in that regard, possibly just because you've gotten used to the central characters.

I've not read The Mirror and The Light, but I've heard generally good reviews from friends who have.

It’s not as good, @TeenyTinyDustinHoffman, much as it pains me to say it, as a huge HM fan.

I think it’s the volume where her commitment to being absolutely historically accurate works least well, as the whole lengthy Pilgrimage of Grace section just feels like an extended and largely irrelevant subplot, when you know the general plot is Cromwell’s downfall. (Obviously it contributed, but what actually happened and whether something works in a novel are two different things, and I say that as someone who has based a novel on historical figures, too.)

I also found it surprisingly depressing to watch TC start being sidelined and overlooked. Maybe because I feel I’ve read far more literary fiction about failure than success.

Having said that, HM at slightly less than her best still hits pretty much everyone else out of the ballpark for me.

@Stonehopper I hope she's grateful😁

I am buying Beyond Black too; it sounds just my thing:)

It’s fine if you catch on that “he” is always Thomas Cromwell. I found Wolf Hall okay but no where as good as. Bring Up The Bodies. The Mirror and the Light was so detailed with revelations about so many people that I nearly gave up. However, I persisted and it was worth the trouble.

THANK YOU for this thread OP!

I'm on my second attempt with Wolf Hall and finding it very uninspiring. It sat by my bed for months after my first try and I thought, dammit, if I can't read it during lockdown when there is fuck-all else to do, I never will. So I'm trying again.

I am utterly infuriated when other people rave about something and I find myself unable to 'get' it. So I will persevere because I want to understand what other people love about it. I'm maybe 1/4 or 1/3 of the way in so hoping I may still get the bug ...

I tried once, couldn't get into it, then watched the adaptation and tried again. Success! I think you have to have an interest in Tudor history though - it must be really difficult to sort out all those Thomases without some prior knowledge.

Interesting @absolutelynotfabulous, maybe I should try the TV series before continuing with the rest of the book

Wolf Hall is the first book I ever gave up on. Slow, too many characters. But also felt like the only person who had given up on it so thank you for not making me feel alone!

I did know about 'he' thing from here before i read it and I have to say it didn't help with my enjoyment of it one bit and I still didn't know what was going on! 🤣

I spent a couple of years studying tudor history and specifically two of the Thomas characters - More and Cromwell. Two absolutely fascinating men at a fascinating time.

Wolf Hall bored me to tears. I struggle to articulate why but I think it might simply be that Cromwell's interest to me has always been that historically his voice isn't found - as an advisor his job was to do Henry's bidding. His own motivations and role in events are murky and unclear (did he engineer the downfall of Anne Boleyn or just take advantage of Henry's desire to get rid of her, for example?) and this is what makes him so fascinating, a man who held so much more power for such a relatively short amount of time and was an engineer and a victim of factional politics, but he himself remains an enigma. Sort of like Anne Boleyn herself.