The God Delusion

[LoveAngel]

Anyone read it? Thoughts?

Anyway, you godless lot (especially YOU uqd) it will serve you all right if your cloud is grey and lumpy and your harp is out of tune.

"Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer"

I like my grey and lumpy cloud, thanks

Of course there's also Hell (I went there on holiday last year, it's a peninsular opposite Gdansk) and Limbo if you like dancing under a pole.

I got this book as a Xmas present and found it enjoyable, well written and great at clarifying some of the ideas which have been bubbling around in my noggin for yrs, love most things re evolutionary psychology so perhaps I was biased from outset. Definitely makes the subject accessable for the lower to middle brows of us out there without seeming patronising. Whether you read it just for the debate or not its a great read

I'd like to read these books. The bit about religion being the cause of most wars always makes me raise an eyebrow as I tot up the millions and millions of deaths caused by Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Rwandan tribal conflict, etc, none of which had anything to do with religion. That's what scares me: if you do away with religion it tends to get replaced with a strident form of materialism which places no value on human life at all. Not saying for one moment that that's the case with the (generally) tolerant and thoughtful atheists I know, but it is a more general concern.

Well, there are good and evil people who believe in God(s), and good and evil people who don't. There doesn't seem to be any identifiable correlation between the two.

There's no evidence that doing away with religion means it is replaced by a "strident form of materialism which places no value on human life". I find that assertion most odd. I, for one, value this life far more than I would if I believed I was going to have some kind of eternal life afterwards.

Well history tends to show that the vacuum left when religion is ousted is filled with religion of a different kind. And often the outcome isn't a happy one. Perhaps, however, we will evolve into societies that can live with the vacuum and not need to fill it with anything. But atheists themselves seem to have some reservations. You have probably read Thomas Hardy's poem about God's funeral?. And the Oxen...

I do agree that believers aren't exempt from evil. I was disciplined at school by people who thought it was acceptable to beat small children in God's name. On a much more serious level we've got those terrorists in court at the moment.

"history tends to show that the vacuum left when religion is ousted is filled with religion of a different kind"

Oh, I agree - people will always find something to believe because that's how people are.

Yes--we need something. It'll probably be pick-n-mix tarot cards and crystals.

I am tempted to quote GK Chesterton: 'When men stop believing in God they don?t believe in nothing; they believe in anything.'

Although I'd differ from GK in that I don't necessarily think these "anythings" (crystal healing etc) have any less evidence than God. I lump them all in together.

As Richard Dawkins says: "We're all atheists with regard to Thor, and Zeus."

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trolley - that's the same one I link to above, I think.

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I wasn't there, no. Not a regular although I do look at his site.

No--Trolleydolly71, I'm sure you don't. You probably have a rich inner life (doesn't have to be the preserve of the religious, does it?) You may have a sense of the spiritual which isn't religious in tone. Some people feel a strong connection with the natural world, for example, or with music or art. I don't know you so I don't know what makes you tick but I'm betting there's something which takes you out of yourself.

Unfortunately many people do not have that. A quick glance at the TV listings most night shows that.

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I don't think there's any doubt that many religious people would think their lives empty without religion. This may seem incomprehensible to non-believers but understandable to, say, a pianist who was told that his piano was going to be taken from him and he'd never be able to play again.

I think a lot of people feel awe when they see, for example, a huge starry sky (providing you don't live near those bloody orange streetlights which completely ruin the experience and should be ripped out) and knowing that we're just tiny little blobs.

I have largely made my peace with organised religion
and, at least in the UK, organised religion does not strike me as a source of apocalyptic danger.
(the lads from Leeds notwithstanding)

What am I much more fascinated (and concerned) by is to what extent
our lives are still governed by beliefs that come in a rational guise.
Which in my view makes them much more dangerous.

Say the belief that house prices will always go up and the UK economy is essentially sound!

Those last beliefs belong with tea-leaves and crystals.

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It goes way beyond that, TD.
Look at your own life and you will find alarmingly important aspects
that are essentially governed by belief.

My view is that you are deluding yourself if you think
that you are free from superstition.
None of use is.

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