2018 Reading Group - February: Fatherland by Robert Harris - *Spoilers from 25 February*

[Chillywhippet]

So for February we have a thriller Fatherland by Robert Harris.

We will discuss the book from 25th February so please no spoilers until then.

Umm. That's it really. We have a thread where we are sorting the book list for the year. Will post link later when not on phone.

It's a new group for this year so please join in. We are working it out as we go along and everyone is welcome for one book or all twelve.

It was! I’ve found myself confused as to whether Artur Nebe was actually on his side or not? I’m assuming he didn’t know it was Jaeger that was selling March out all along? I found the chapters following his improsonment slightly confusing. But I was so desperate to find out if Charlotte made it out that I think I might have rushed them a bit. That brings me to the ending too! Do you think Charlotte got out? On one hand I like that it’s open ended so we can make up our own mind but I also just wish we had got some proper closure.

I also couldn't believe it when March went to visit his son!
Really liked Charlie and March, found them very likeable. Thought Harris did a good job of creating an atmosphere of fear, distrust and uncertainty. The not knowing what was true history, people's true thoughts, was captured well.
All in all a good police procedural with some good characters. Thought he did a good job of creating a plausible alternative history.

I thought the world he created was totally convincing. I wish the novel was part of a series as I'd love to read more about it. The way the Jewish people were forgotten about was chilling. I think the way the unrest never ended on the eastern front make it very believable. The fact that there was a cold war anyway even when Germany won was interesting.
Has anyone read The Plot Against America by Philip Roth? It's an alternative version of history where the anti-semitic Charles Lindbergh becomes US president in the 1940s.

My ending in my head is that Charlotte made it into Switzerland and got the papers out. March hid in the forest, got through Poland, into Russia and finally lived happily ever after with Charlotte.

I know. Unlikely. I’m obviously a romantic at heart.

mmack I was reading about that novel today and thought it would be interesting. I enjoyed this book way more than I expected (it’s not my usual genre) so I think I might give that a go if I get the time.

I agree that I found his world totally believable. Had Germany won the war I imagine it’s exactly the way the country would have turned out.

In my ending Charlotte got out but I’m not sure if she would have been believed. There’s Holocaust deniers now so I can only imagine what it would have been like in that climate! Hopefully it would have stirred enough change though. As for March I’m afraid I don’t think he’d have made it (as much as it pains me to think that!). I think his closure was seeing the evidence of the camps for himself.

The saddest thing would be if she got the papers out but people didn't care all that much.

I assumed Nebe was in on the "escape" plot. But now I'm wondering too Airy. I might re-read that chapter later.

I liked Charlie too. Though I found their romance a bit too predictable.

Early on when March was on the tour bus and they were saying how this building is bigger than another building in another country etc it made me think of a certain current politician and his obsession with being better and bigger than anyone else!

I found the alternative history very convincing. There were parallels with other events/political regimes etc that have actually happened.

Sorry, not entirely sure I'm making sense. I'm on some rather heavy duty painkillers but thank you for starting the book club and thank you for introducing me to a book I wouldn't otherwise have chosen. I really enjoyed it. It reminded me in many ways of 1984. I felt the same sense of frustration and futility in the face of an all powerful government.

Whatwould you are making perfect sense. In fact John Mullen in the Guadian agrees with you

“Fatherland is clearly influenced by George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four, fiction's template for the workings of a totalitarian society: March's young son is a solemn enthusiast for party values who eventually betrays him; the nation is in a state of perpetual war with the hordes of Russia. The Nazi state is not, however, the perfected tyranny that Orwell creates, where even the most private rebellion is inevitably noticed by the authorities. Power in this Fatherland is more frayed. Some people listen to American radio stations; groups of the urban young grow their hair and wear unconventional clothes; the Beatles have apparently played in Hamburg, though pop music is officially deplored. There are hints of the 1960s. This is alternative history, not allegory. The fraying of power is important to Harris's use of the other genre he exploits: the police procedural. It must be conceivable in this fictional world for a clever and brave investigator – the traditional police detective transposed into a nightmare situation – to find out the terrible truth that has been hidden from Germans as well as from the rest of the world.”

It's impressive that Harris could plot the mystery so tightly and create the convincing alternative world as well. I often end up cross with thrillers that have plot holes and loose ends and I generally don't enjoy speculative fiction either but Fatherland was a pleasure to read.

I think I may have rushed the ending also to try to find out if Charlotte had made it out alive. I think I will re-read it to get more clarity on the final parts!
I found the alternative history very convincing and can quite imagine that is how it would have panned out. What I could not figure out also was what the fate of the UK was? It mentioned Churchill and the queen being in Canada so made me assume it had been invaded, but then the Beatles references also made me doubt that.
I think I've been put off thrillers in the past as have read some poorly written one's in the past but I would certainly like to read more of Harris's books as was page turning engrossing stuff

I’ve never read 1984 cause I hated animal farm but I might give it a try if it’s a similar feel to this.

Plenty I think they said the Queen and Churchill had fled to Canada and that King Edward and Queen Wallis were on the throne. So I assume Churchill and King George at the time were unwilling to bend to Nazi rule and they put Edward back on the throne. They didn’t explicitly say but I’m assuming that Weatern Europe has the same countries as before with their own heads of state but with quite heavy control from Germany?

1984 is brilliant airy well worth reading.
It has the same atmosphere of oppression and similar themes regarding willingly not questioning the status quo and unreliability of news and the approved history. The same inability to trust anyone.

Finished! I really enjoyed this, really convincing portrayal of what could have been. I thought people not knowing about the holocaust was more people turning a blind eye and not wanting to think too hard about where all the Jews had gone. Easier not to consider your country and leaders could be guilty of such evil.

I had to stop reading the documents, the way they were written was so cold blooded it chilled me. Especially realising afterwards they were genuine.

Brilliant ending, though I was so hoping for a happy ending after the bleakness.

Finished! I read it quickly so I think that added to the pace of the book as my library book was due back.

March's downfall was his integrity and his questioning. If he's been like everyone else and just done as he was told he would have been ok I think.

I really liked the book and found the background and portrayal of Berlin very believable but I wanted a bit more detail of their day to day lives.

Do you think that when Charlotte had the documents published it would have changed things? Harris hints that the alliance between the USA and Germany wouldn't take place I suppose.

A lone voice by the look of it, but there was something lacking for me and I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. I wasn't expecting the ending so that was good but would it have hurt the author to have given us a two page epilogue? Charlotte's fate, outcome of the papers, March's family and his department, Hilter's death... It would have been more engrossing for me if there had also been a scene-setter. E.g. details of current European countries - heads of state, local political councils etc. also how the war progressed and at what point Germany was victorious. I felt I was just stuck in a 30s Stalinist regime but not quite knowing how or why.

Lol, just realised my review is practically the same as what I said for North and South! 😛 I said a foreword would have been good and a follow up to the ending. Without consciously knowing, I obviously have to be spoon-fed my novels!

I know it's the wrong book but I just finished Munich and really enjoyed it. I found the protagonists sympathetic and I learned a little bit of history.....

Agree of course, similarities to 1984. It took a little while for me to get into this, but I whizzed through the second half of the book and would say I enjoyed it.

I liked the open ended conclusion. Though I envisaged a bleak ending for both I'm afraid.

I agree with runningout, and would have liked more detail, scene setting and earlier on.