Wuthering Heights - Just read for the first time. ANyone care to discuss

[suzywong]

My laptop was in the repair shop over the weekend so I read it.

Pretty strong stuff

IMO the key issue is not the romance but the shockingly systematic chld abuse.

And how is it that no one ever mentions the cruelty to Isabella when raving about this novel? Hmmmmm ?

Catherine could have pulled a Mary Reid and married the lowborn man, anyhow, even if it meant being disinherited, as Jane Eyre's mother was.

She didn't have to play the stuck up moo.

But she did.

And he reacted by being an abusive bully.

I had to read it at school donkeys years ago. Convent school so of course no comments were allowed about heathcliffe being sexy . I remember putting in my essay about it that the housekeeper telling the story seemed very nosey, and now that I am older and understand such terms, I would say that all the characters seem a little TOO inter-related by the end of the story!
I found it very heavy... nice scenery around where it is set though, my sis used to live there and we'd go for some lovely wild windswept walks.
I feel a song coming on, Kate Bush anyone??

Oh and I agree with Bectheneck - far from the madding crowd is just faaaabulous. 'whenever you look up, I shall be there...'.
And as for the film with Alan Bates as the farmer and that sad sad scene of sargeant troy on the grave of his wife and child in the rain, in fact I think I will have to see if I can get the video.
Sorry if hiking a thread..
Another good read of mine is the grapes of wrath by John Steinbeck, quite heavy but very well written, truly believable characters.

I loved WH when I read it as a child and have re-read it many times. I still love it but I do tend to huff at the child abuse and the general un-PCness of Heathcliff. But that is his appeal isn't it - brooding, passionate etc etc. Wonderful in a book, probably dreadful in reality. I prefer CB though - Villette and Shirley are my favourites I think.

I think I read too many Victorian novels because the child abuse/wife beating stuff just doesn't occur to me, except as being a natural part of the story

I love Hardy, his poetry as well. I know his books are full of gloom, but hey life is too (am cheery sod I know).

I did get a bit fed up with Cathy and her fainting fit in WH - I mean she just sort of died of a cold and hysteria as far as I could see - but thats all Victorian stuff as well innit - women and madness etc.

Ah, now you're talking ... Hardy hits the spot every time.

Although I found Jude sooo depressing - because we are to meny...etc. I did go and read most of his other works after and I do remember being impressed with The Mayor of Casterbridge - I do love a good depressing read.
I've often mean to read Grapes of Wrath - you'd recommend??

Expat, you have a habit, if I may say so, of applying modern sensitivities to older problems. If you genuinely believe that your generation is better than all those who have gone before you and that Emily Bronte, Heathcliffe, Cathy, et al, are all twats, then that's fine.

Just hope your grandchildren don't dismiss you so lightly.

grapes of wrath is utterly devoid of hope or joy. does that interest you? style is v different to hardy - modern american writer rather than traditional british one, so if you like hardy's style you may not enjoy. but if you want something to bleed all life and fun from your soul, to leave you witha haunting image which never completely leaves you, to feel that humanity is too cruel and careless to justify living, then yep, it's great!

expat she couldn't marry h because he disappeared & didn't return for many years. feeling abandoned, instead of holding true to her natural passion, she turned insted to the safe option of marriage to a different man, one that she cared for, but wasn't a part of her like h is

I can't stand the Brontes

The only readable one is Anne, Emily's a nutter and Charlotte's just turgid drivel

I hate the whole myth as well. All these mad middle-aged women with nine cats going to visit Haworth worshipping these unhealthy, unattractive characters.

No wonder Branwell was a drunk

There. That's my lit crit for the day.

I love Hardy

Don't think he's depressing at all.

But that John Steinbeck - oh give me strength

Oh, right, rabble, so that's why I'm such a huge fan of Jane Eyre, Colette, Proust, Voltaire, Candide, Hawthorne, Hugo, etc.?

Yes, I think Heathcliff was a twat and Catherine was a stuck up cow, especially when you consider the characters Emily Bronte's own sister Jane, a product of not only the same generation but also the same family, created. The contrast becomes even more striking.

Heathcliff and Catherine seem very weak and flimsy to me.

Guess I wasn't alone in my sentiments, 'Wuthering Heights' suffered horrible literary reviews and did poorly at the time of its publication.

Heathcliff ran off after he overheard Catherine poncing off.

Mr. Rochester stepped up to the plate. Jane Eyre's mum ran off with her true love. Captain Brandon proved that a patient man wins in the end.

Need any more examples?

PMSL, Caligula!

Hardy has his moments, and 'Return of the Native' is definitely one of them!

Hell, even Stevenson's Alan Brek I find WAY more romantic than Heathcliff, in a dashing, swashbuckling sort of way.

I prefer Cold Comfort Farm. It's funnier.

I just wanted to get my two cents in as I love the bronte books and wh is my well worn fav. I suppose I've always been caught in the notion of a powerful, albeit selfish, love that transcends everything, even death. Catherine and Jane ARE two strikingly different characters but what links them is the lack of mother figures in their lives. The substitutes they use as female role models influence the people they become.

I like your point about mother figures, Beachbunni - v appropriate for this forum.

Isn't Heathcliff the first anti-hero? I think it's more about revenge than love. I don't really see him as a romantic figure, rather a tortured soul who turns the tables. Emily Bronte probably got her inspiration from books and newspapers rather than any personal experience.

Errrghhh, WH is awful. And why are they all called Catherine? Couldn't she think of any other names?

Jane Eyre rocks, as does Hardy's poetry.

[philistine]

Hardy's poetry is brilliant. Now that is romance and passion.

I agree, expat. Much of the narrative in his novels is beautifully poetic as well - which is one of the reasons I much prefer him to Jane Austen or the Brontes. He writes as if he loves language, and I don't get that from Austen or the Brontes.

I agree expat. I love Hardy's work - poems and novels. I love his strong sense of place - I know Hardy's Wessex quite well and it really resonates with me. But then I had a friend at uni who hated Hardy with a passion but liked DH Lawrence whose work I thought (and still do) was that of an arrested adolescent! And this chap also reckoned that Hardy was a misogynist...

heathcliff is definitely a psychopath, never understood why people think he's a romanic hero.

OOh. Never felt that the Brontes were about language...just feeling (very Victorian). And I frequently have the urge to tell the characters to get a grip...even whilst I'm enjoying the story.