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Georgette Heyer, does the Alastair chronology work?

49 replies

Themodernuriahheep · 27/01/2016 21:27

My brain has gone to mush atm and as I was trying to go to sleep last night, I was trying work out what the supposed chronology was of the Alastair family in the novels in which they appear. I have not checked against the events nor the costumes nor googled, but wondered if others had.

We know that Avon, let's call him Justin, was out in the 45. We know that when he meets Leonie he is at least 45. So assuming he was 25 in 45 ( to make the arithmetic simpler) that would mean they get together in 1760. If 35 then 1750. Going with that one at the moment.

(If I checked the age of Conde I might be able to specify. )

Mme de Pompadour didn't die until 1764 but was Maitresse en titre from 1745.

We know that Vidal takes Mary to Paris before the Revolution. So let's assume he is a little older than her, about 23. Let's assume he was born in 1751. So he's there in 1774.

New generation arrives whom I think we never meet, let's assume in 1775. This is where I start to get stuck.

We meet Babs in An Infamous Army in 1815. She has already been disastrously married and fortunately widowed iirc. I can't recall if we are told how old she is. But if she is eg 23 she would have been born in 1792. I can't recall if she is older than her wastrel brother, but if not new generation as above would have had to have DTD in wedlock at the age of about 17.

Clearly, by plying around with Avon's age we can make this just work.

But, critically, I cannot recall in which year Regency Buck is set. But Judith has at least one smallish child by An infamous army, and Charles has fought and been wounded in Regency Buck.

Please tell me, someone, that it all does work and how you have worked it out and what the refs are?

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HuckfromScandal · 31/01/2016 18:53

Having read this thread, and also having an aged mama (88) who now also only one reads georgette Heyer, please tell me where to start, which one should I read first?

Themodernuriahheep · 31/01/2016 20:12

Lapsed, it was LoQ I had forgotten. Thanks v much.

Huck, what sort if heroines do you sympathise with? Feisty or sweet even if determined? Do you like your heroes dark and grumpy like Rochester or urbane? Is your humour situational or linguistic? Do you want a puzzle/ mystery to solve or not? Do you like regency or earlier ? Swashbuckling or comedy of. manners?

                        Heroine.        Hero.      Humour.   Puzzle  Period.  S/CM

Regency buck Feisty.. U. L. Yes. R. C/M
These old shades. F/S. U. L. Y E. S
Devils cub. F. R. S. N. E. S
Venetia. S. R. L. N. R. C/M
Frederica. F. U. S. N. R. C/M
Arabella. F/S. U. S N. R. C/M
Reluctant widow. F. U. S. Y. R. S
Grand sophy F. U/R L/S. N. R. C/M
Faro's daughter. F. R. L. N. R. C/M

Others may disagree..

Personally I'd start with Venetia, Frederica or the Grand Sophy. I'd then go to TOS and devil's cub.

Two more blurbs

Venetia is the beautiful middle child of a ( now dead but reclusive)Yorkshire squire, who is looking after the estate while her older brother is serving in the army abroad. Her younger v scholarly brother lives with her. Into a peaceful if dull existence with two local suitors first comes her neighbour, a rake of the worst reputation, and then her older brother' s new wife and mother in law. Her life becomes untenable and would be worthy of several threads on AIBU...

Frederica is the managing older sister of a small but impecunious family, who comes to London to launch her beautiful younger sister on the marriage market. To do so she needs the help of a remote, arrogant but noble cousin who is in the fashionable world but appears to have no family feeling or indeed emotions.

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Themodernuriahheep · 31/01/2016 20:14

Darn, can't do tables . Came out decently when I drew it up...sorry.

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LapsedPacifist · 31/01/2016 21:52

I'm very fond of all her 18th Century novels, probably because I read them all before the Regency ones when I was still a child. 'The Talisman Ring' is very funny, with an absurdly frothy and farcical plot set in a remote country inn (reminiscent of 'She Stoops to Conquer') complete with lost heirs, stolen heirlooms, cross-dressing disguises, smugglers, incompetent Bow Street Runners and one of her trademark tall, cool, ironic heroines engaging in Beatrice-and Benedict-style sparring with her male opposite number. And a silly pair of youthful lovers as foil! Smile All the early novels owe a great deal to Jeffrey Farnol and Baroness Orczy, but she subverts the genre by adding in great dollops of humour and fun.

Themodernuriahheep · 31/01/2016 22:38

Lapsed, I find Eustacie so irritating, even if she is a parody...though info live the leitmotif of ventre a terre

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LapsedPacifist · 31/01/2016 22:52

Oh she's a joke! All that Gothic drama set against Tristram's British phlegm!
Grin

Themodernuriahheep · 31/01/2016 22:54

I adore the breakfast scene when they both realise it is not going to be a happy marriage at all...

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Themodernuriahheep · 31/01/2016 22:55

And I'm very fond of Hugh. "They won't ask me", he said simply.

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IrenetheQuaint · 31/01/2016 23:01

I know the thread has moved on, but TOS is set c1755, there's a ref to Avon taking his sword to the Young Pretender a decade previously.

Themodernuriahheep · 31/01/2016 23:11

Ooh, Irene, nothing to do with GH is ever out of place. Excited as that's what I had reckoned.

My fave denouements, not all of them the actual final scene, are Leonie and Avon, the Grand Sophy, and Venetia and Damerel. The last two are v funny, the first and last v touching.

Yes I agree about Farnol and Orkzy. I can still just read Orkzy, as I can The Children of The New Forest, and also The Prisoner of Zenda, but I so can't read Farnol.

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LapsedPacifist · 31/01/2016 23:21

Well spotted Irene! So the chronology really doesn't work over the 3 novels after all. Sorted! Grin

Farnol is hard work for today's readers, but you can really see his influence in 'The Black Moth'.

'Venetia' is probably my all-time favourite and the only book I've ever felt tempted to follow up with some fanfic of my own. Wouldn't you LOVE to know what happens to Venetia, Jasper and Aubrey after the wedding? (I think Aubrey deserves a novel of his own) and what on earth will Conway do when he comes home? Will he really tell his wife to get rid of Mrs Scorton and then go out riding for the rest of the day?

Themodernuriahheep · 01/02/2016 00:02

They go off to Italy. Aubrey finds a tutor who is by chance going yo be at Cambridge the same time as him and in March he decides to head off to Greece, where they run across Byron, Aubrey enjoys his scholarship, teases him but thanks god v has chosen j not b. J&v in the meantime visit her mother in Paris, or they meet at the Crillon or whatever, and j us with difficulty persuaded to be polite given sir lambert's attempt to flirt with v. Oswald happens to be in Paris at the same time and does not get on with sir l. Oswald grows up and becomes one of the subordinate couples.

Mrs Scorrier, not quite sure what the catalyst is. Think one of Conway's dogs bites her and it's a prize breeding dog. No contest. She is pensioned off to Scarborough. Somehow she triggers the scandal below.

Clara and Edward marry. They have a dutiful son and daughter and ditto rebellious ones, Emily and Arthur. One if the latter marries a Damerel child after a scandalous escapade to eg the Crimea ( date probably wrong).

I want to read your version...

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florentina1 · 01/02/2016 11:48

. Only just started reading GH.

My sequel,
I think Aubrey should meet the man of his dreams in Italy and set up home with him. He should invite Conway and his MiL.

Imagine what an AIBU that would be.

Themodernuriahheep · 01/02/2016 13:34

Very very neat. In fact brilliant.

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sportinguista · 20/02/2016 12:26

I love all the GH novels, rediscovered them after years and got all on my kindle now. The chronology always ties me in knots so I don't think about it either! I love that patricular era, loved the Sharpe books too even though they are very different.

Prynnie · 10/10/2019 15:17

So glad someone else has noticed that the Alastair chronology doesn't add up. We get quite a bit of info in These Old Shades and Devil's Cub. In TOS when Léonie is at Justin's country seat, she's told "a small part of Justin's own adventures, ten years ago, for King Charles II". Obviously this doesn't refer to Charles II (who died in 1685, long before Justin was born), but to Bonnie Prince Charlie, known as King Charles III to his adherents, who attempted to regain the throne in 1745. Since that was "ten years ago", we can place TOS as set in 1755. Then we get DC, in which we're told that Dominic would be 24 in a month or two, and also that Léonie had moved to Britain 24 years previously after she married Justin. DC is therefore set in 1779, Dominic and Mary presumably marry that same year (probably after Dominic's 24th birthday), and their first son is presumably born in 1780 at the earliest. So far so good. (I do wonder why Justin & Léonie AND Dominic & Mary are only supposed to have had one son when everyone back then had huge families!)
Regency Buck - where we meet Judith, Julian, Perry, Charles etc - opens at the end of September 1811. Judith herself tells us so right at the start of the book. They spend Christmas at Worth, and Julian and Judith marry in August 1812 (according to Perry at the start of An Infamous Army; this book is obviously set in 1815 as the Battle of Waterloo was fought in June of that year). Again, all clear up to now.
But then we meet the four Alastair siblings in An Infamous Army: Robert, Marquis of Vidal, Lady Barbara Alastair, Lord George Alastair and Lord Harry Alastair. These four siblings are all supposed to be Dominic and Mary's grandchildren. But Robert, the eldest, is about 35, which means HE was born in 1780!!! Even if Robert is younger than 35 (no age is actually given for Robert), we are definitely told that Barbara is 25, which means she was born in 1790. So even then, Dominic's only son, the alleged father of the four Alastair siblings, married at younger than 10 and produced these four children soon after that (Dominic's "grandchildren"). One person on here remarked that people married young in those days, which is certainly true (particularly for females). But I'm sure nobody back then married at age 9 and actually produced four offspring shortly afterwards. Really G. Heyer should have checked all these dates before writing An Infamous Army!! She should have made the four Alastair siblings Dominic and Mary's own children, which would be perfectly logical. The siblings couldn't possibly be D&M's grandchildren. No way.

Prynnie · 10/10/2019 15:40

Lapsed Pacifist I'm afraid your chronology doesn't work: TOS is definitely set in 1755. I've just looked it up in the actual book and it says so ("ten years after the 1745 rebellion"). See my previous post on the same question. I've cited references from all 4 of the relevant books in my post (looked them up in the actual books too!)

pollyhemlock · 10/10/2019 17:21

@Themodernuriahheep Interested to see you like DK Broster. God I loved those books (the Ewen Cameron ones) when I was 12/13, and reread many times in my teens. Reread Flight of the Heron quite recently and it still holds up quite well. Basically it’s a bromance, which I didn’t realise when I read it as a child. Don’t often meet anyone else who has read them, though.

Ellmau · 12/10/2019 23:56

The one where want to know What Happened Next is The Corinthian, as (spoiler alert) the hero would need to get the consent of the heroine's guardians to marry her, when he has lied outright to them about her whereabouts.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 14/10/2019 07:25

I love Bath Tangle. They are, realistically, terrible people, but I so wanted to be bold like Serena. .

Venetia and These Old Shades are probably my favourites, but I adore The Toll Gate and The Unknown Ajax and I think The Talisman Ring might be the funniest.

If Heyer had been a male writer, she’d be esteemed as one of the great comic authors, but because she is so beloved by women, she’s relegated to the much maligned category of romance.

IrmaFayLear · 17/10/2019 15:19

Georgette Heyer virgin here (!)

So, would you concur with Themodernuriahheep: Personally I'd start with Venetia, Frederica or the Grand Sophy. I'd then go to TOS and devil's cub. ?

Ellmau · 17/10/2019 20:44

Any of those three is a great place to start.

MightyMunki · 24/10/2019 22:52

I love GH and am genuinely gutted when I reread them all and realise there aren’t any new stories.

Love love love TOS and DC, Sylvester too.
Can anyone recommend similar authors? I’ve never found anyone who writes as well as she does.

Sadik · 25/10/2019 21:40

MightyMunki Band Sinister by KJ Charles is fabulous GH pastiche (though be warned it contains rather more explicit sex than the original Grin).

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