I did it, I read Jude The Obscure and now I have sunk into a deep existential sadness

[rubberglove]

A great book, but not exactly full of the joys of life is it?

Yes she was NorthernLurker :(

I think Hardy warned us enough times, didn't he? You can't stop the relentless wheel of fate...

I have a great claim to fame re Jude the Obscure!

Sadly it will completely out me.

As you were.

How can you say that, shinecrazydiamond? I won't sleep all night now...

Gwan, are you Mr Hardy's great-great-granddaughter?

Did you once shag Michael Winterbottom?

Is Kate Winslet your son's daughter's best friend?

Hmmm..

OK

Well, there are several claims to fame re this book but I will divulge just one.

From my bathroom window I can see Thomas Hardy's grandmother's gravestone. Always quite inspiring when I am taking a shower.

He was very close to his Grandmother.

DH felt that Cordelia's fate was just too tragic. And then I thought of poor, thwarted Cordelia in Brideshead Revisited, but I still like it very much as a name.

Yes I was on the Tess thread and I was warned!

What next? 50 shades?

Love Jude The Obscure.

It's not even the "too menny" bit that does me, it's just the unrelenting shit that is Jude's life and the fact that life is still like that in so many ways. He never gets anywhere despite his hard work and intelligence and general loveliness.

He is just shat on from a great height by everyone.

When Sue says "promise me you'll never stop trying" I just want to shake her.

God. When I got to "that page" I honestly thought I had misunderstood and had to go back and reread it. I mean nobody could actually write that, could they? Make that happen from their own imagination, could they?

I didn't think that was part of the deal - I was expecting at least a smidgen of redemption.

My all time favourite book

I like that it challenges the notion that anyone can better their circumstances with a bit of hard work. It isn't that simple is it?

Totally agree, rubberglove . That's what I love about it.

Agree rubberglove that is a huge misconception that blights this country Sometimes hard work just doesn't work

Social mobility is the carrot. Capitalism needs the stick and the carrot.

It is a great book but I will never read it again. One of the most shocking books I've read. The Secret Agent was pretty shocking as well. And Kafka's the trial (inspired to read this after an interminable meeting at work).

Those are the most learned books I've read. I'm now on a spate of Diana Wynne Jones books. They are the antidote to everything. She was a genius, and I've only just discovered her.

Love the book - one of my favourites. Not into comedy though, me .

The "done because we are too many" bit was somewhat diluted for me as I was lying on the sofa engrossed in my reading, when DH came up and tried to make inane conversation . Had to make him go away!

That Sue needed a good shake though, didn't she? Hardy's women are completely weird when it comes to marriage.

Ooh, yellowraincoat, missed your comment. That's two of us in the shake-Sue-club then .

I spose you could sort of see her point, it was tragic for her as well. She had the security of ol' husbandy bloke and by going off with Jude, she was sort of condemning herself to a life of misery.

Just a big old tragedy all round.

I think characters like Sue were passionate and forward thinking, but yes condemned to misery by the social rules and constraints of the time.

I couldn't bring myself to like a single character in it and I found Sue very manipulative.

I was happy a few minutes ago now I am looking round for somewhere to hang the rope.

Not just a question of social rules and constraints though - Sue, and Tess, and others of Hardy's women, consider themselves bound to the first woman they married/were seduced by. Sue has many years with Jude and then goes back to her husband as she still considers herself married to him .

I think that would have been considered fairly normal, wouldn't it?

I think Sue feels that she's being punished by God for forsaking her marriage. That's why she goes back to him.

It's a particularly bleak view of religion, education and womanhood (among others) and worst of all I don't think Hardy was wrong in his diagnosis. I've never been able to properly think about this novel. It's just so scary. And I don't dare to read it again, so shall be condemned to half-understanding the thing.

I don't know yellowraincoat... yes, it might have been considered normal by many people - staying loyal to your husband, not so sure about staying loyal/tied to your seducer (Tess) - but if someone like Sue went against these social norms to live with someone and have children with him, would she really have decided several years down the line that the social norms were right after all? If she felt that strongly about God, it took her a long time to discover it!