Second Nature - any good?

[Rarewaxwing]

I've been looking at the free version and I've searched on MN for previous threads on this, but would welcome any feedback from anyone who's done this programme recently. I'm unfit and have about 10 pounds to lose, but I can't motivate myself to make changes. DH is worse than me, but won't discuss it. He just says, "I'll do it my way", which seems to involve constant snacking and very little exercise 🤔.

I've successfully lost weight from intermittent fasting before, but I find this harder to do now that I'm wfh. Second Nature looks as if it works on the psychology behind healthy eating, which is what I need. But £40 a month is a lot!

Is Second Nature worth doing?

I'm the same as you about team sports, @LibbySarjeant. Like you, I enjoy going to classes where I exercise alongside people - but I'm not in a team.

Thanks to the 'exercise snacking' suggestion, I've started looking up 'one-minute exercises' on YouTube. Lots on there.

@Rarewaxwing - 40 people!!! There were around 16 the first time I did it, which was fine (for me at least). Ridiculous to pretend there's so many when as you say, probably at least half don't participate!

That's good news about the sugar, although I may have to console myself with several biscuits now memories of my dreaded hockey and netball lessons at school have come flooding back...!

I lost 3 stone with this back when it was Our Path. Despite many challenges, I've kept 2 and a half stone off for over 2 years now. It's the only thing that's ever worked for me.

A big plus was the focus on healthy habits, rather than on dieting. Many of the habits have become my new normal and I feel massively better for it.

It was however very dependent on how much the other people in your group chose to participate. Back then there were groups of 12. In mine, probably 8 of us got stuck in and that was just enough to keep the group support going. In others, it was down to two or three.

When they changed the business model to larger groups (and put the price up) I asked why and one of the founders replied that the old model simply wasn't sustainable for them.

There must be a sweet spot with enough members to make a group viable and interesting for the participants, not so big that the coaches are overwhelmed and not so small that they can't afford to run it, but I'm not convinced that they've found it. I believe that they are now more proactive about combining groups if people don't participate very much, in some ways this is good but it's also good to stay with the same people. If I were to go back to it I'd want to know what their view on the optimum group size is and what they'd do if and when they felt a particular group wasn't working. But having said that, it genuinely enabled me to turn my health around and gave me a toolkit that's been useful in many other contexts.

That's really interesting about the sweet spot (for customers) aligning with the business model (for the company) @MontyDonsBlueScarf - I wonder how many people they ideally need in each group to make it viable? You may have seen me bemoaning the increased costs, presumably that's another result of the previous business model becoming unviable!

I do think there's a lot of good stuff in the programme, but I can't justify £40 a month at the moment. WW/ SW are half the cost and I would imagine they are Second Nature's main competitors?

@LibbySarjeant interesting comment re WW/SW. I haven't tried either so I can't compare. But I do think that though SN sells itself as a weight loss programme, that's just because nobody would buy it if it sold itself as a change your entire life programme, which is what it really is. I haven't heard anyone saying the same thing about WW/SW. I realise that losing a substantial amount of weight might in itself be life changing, but for me and others in my group, it went way beyond that and changed the way I thought about myself and what I was capable of. For that reason it was (for me) priceless. I would never have believed that before I did it, though.

@MontyDonsBlueScarf I think WW is trying to sell itself more as a 'wellness programme' than just weight loss (they play down the 'Weight Watchers' in favour of WW!) and I agree that Second Nature was/ is much better in that respect... just a shame it's so flipping expensive!! I'm crossing my fingers for a decent discount code soon

Six-week update: I've lost six pounds; DH has lost 13.

I wasn't overweight, but wanted to lose my belly fat. I'm well on the way to achieving that (Pilates is helping too).

DH was overweight and is approaching the 'healthy weight' zone at last. He has heart disease in the family and I was really worried about it, so I'm really pleased. This is the only diet that has worked for him.

We've ditched processed food, sugar and alcohol (although happy to indulge when we go out).

The main difference we notice is that we've lost our craving for snacks between meals. Some of that was obviously sugar cravings. And processed food is designed to make you want more of the same. Now we're satisfied by our meals, so there is no need for snacks.

I was a sugar addict, so I'm surprised how easy I found it to give up sugar. I don't miss it at all. Especially now I'm seeing the benefits.

It's made me realise how crazy it is that we have a food industry based on pumping out ultra-processed food. It's cheap, but the long-term cost is expensive: weight gain and all the health issues that go alongside that.

Actually, I've realised I've lost 9 pounds overall because I started the programme by using the free app and lost 3 pounds that way. And then I've lost another six over the six weeks on the paid programme.

How are you getting on @Rarewaxwing? I've lost my way completely over the last few weeks, had Covid and am still not recovered properly... thinking of investing the £10 in a Second Nature trial to see if that will help kick start me!

I've just found this as I've been offered this through my GP.

I had been thinking if signing up with Zoe so I'm wondering if they're very different.

@OneMoreStepAlongTheRoadIGo that's great that you've been offered it through your GP, definitely worth a try!

They sent me an email recently asking if I'd like to rejoin - not at your quoted £49 per month, thanks

Hope @Rarewaxwing is getting along ok!

Oh wow that's a lot! Great it's been helpful though.

I've been offered 6 1-1 coaching sessions instead so will start with that and maybe try second nature/zoe in due course.

Sorry you've had Covid, @LibbySarjeant. Hope you're feeling better now. I remember the tiredness going on for several weeks after I had it.

My weight seems to have stabilised now, which is what SN says will happen. I've lost 9 pounds in all and am back to my pre-menopause weight 🙂.

My DH has lost over a stone and is still losing. He was two stone overweight but couldn't shift it. He is delighted that he's lost weight in a relatively easy way - just by sticking to the SN recipes and guidelines.

I haven't embraced all the recommended habits, but I've been drinking more water and exercising a bit more. I might sign up for the next SN course after this one and choose to focus on exercise. I'll get new recipes when I do that as well.

A £10 trial sounds like a good deal.

Good luck with the coaching sessions!

Do you need to follow their recipes or can you mix and match with your own?

@OneMoreStepAlongTheRoadIGo - you can adapt your own or follow their recipes. They explain how to adapt your own recipes to suit their guidelines. But I've mainly used their cookbook so far because I really enjoy their suggestions.

You also get guidance on eating out. And there is a good attitude towards enjoying treats.

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@Rarewaxwing, really pleased to hear you're enjoying it still! The post Covid slump is still with me I have one or two days a week when I'm so achey and shivery I can hardly move - apparently this is normal for up to 12 weeks

And speaking of shock, I contacted Second Nature again to check on the details of the £10 offer; that's still going but it's now £49/ month!!! I thought £40/ month was steep, sadly don't think £49 is worth it at all!

I‘ve just joined so would be interested to hear from anyone currently doing it. I like that the recipes are easy and healthy, there isn’t an emphasis on low fat and additive filled crap. The coach is very silent so far and the group seem to maki g excuses already ( no time, too expensive etc) but I think this could work for me!

I have got it free by self referring on the NHS website. GPS can refer to.

Love to hear how you get on and if it's helpful. What are the main changes you'll make do you think?

Drinking more water, cutting out carbs in one meal a day and reducing them generally. Portion control and no alcohol for the first week. I'm feeling particularly fed up today so it's not a good day to start!

10,000 steps a day too

I've recently finished the 12-week programme, but DH and I are still following the meal plan. DH is continuing to lose weight and I've lost another pound, so I've lost 10 pounds in all. I don't need to lose anymore (my BMI is now 20), but I want to continue on the meal plan for health reasons and to encourage DH.

I think it's a really good programme, but I wouldn't worry if you can't keep up with all the extra habits they encourage, e.g. daily gratitudes. I tried, as they are all sensible things to do, but I soon lost motivation. However, my main aim was to lose weight and eat better and the programme definitely worked for this.

Thanks that’s helpful. Ten pounds in 12 weeks is less than I would hope for though. I’m wondering if there is too much food in a way.

@Watchingpaintdrying - my DH lost over a stone in 12 weeks. The idea of the plan is to get you back to your natural weight. I wasn't overweight, but wanted to lose a few extra pounds and eat more healthily. DH, however, was well into the overweight category, so the change was more dramatic for him. This is the only diet that has worked for him apart from fasting, which was miserable.

I wasn't careful about portion sizes, so my weight loss came from dropping processed food and eating fewer carbs. I also reduced alcohol intake. It was a slow, steady weight loss, which is much better for the body.

I've tried fasting in the past, when I was carrying too much weight, but since being diagnosed with gallbladder disease I've discovered gallstones can be triggered by fasting. Wish I'd known that before! So losing weight gradually is much safer.