Questions about marriage in a Catholic church

[LittleRebelGirl]

Me and my partner are talking about getting married. He has told me he wants to be married in a Catholic church.
He is baptised, did Holy Communion and Confirmation. He doesn't attend church regularly in his own time, but does as a teacher (teaches in Catholic school, not by choice, just happened to be the job he could get - he's previously worked in a Jewish school!).
I'm totally non religious. Atheist. I'm baptised Catholic however.
I've been married before in a registry office, the marriage was over 4 hours later (his infidelity came to light). I had to go through a divorce as I couldn't have an annulment (early pregnancy at time of marriage).
Can we marry in a Catholic church? As ridiculous as I think religion is, if it is something he would like then it's fine by me. I just want to be married, I'd get married in our back garden, or at Gretna Green. Whatever! It's about the marriage and not the venue for me!
If we can marry in a Catholic church, do we need to marry in our nearest catholic church also? I think he'd prefer to marry in the parish of his school.
Thanks for anyone who can offer advice!

It's OK, I am assuming as someone outside the Church it can make no sense, and this is why I am emphasizing that what would be happening is a liturgical act and the beginning of a Sacrament which is FREELY entered into by both parties with FULL CONSENT. It is a vocation and a call from God, in Catholic theology and understanding. Being open to life and children is a requirement of Catholic marriage and to raise them Catholic. If anyone is outraged by this I am not sure why they would want a Catholic marriage as this is what the Church has always believed and taught. Noone would be surprised if a Jewish, Hindu, Muslim or Sikh marriage had religious expectations and requirements. This is a religious event, not just an activity in a pretty building. I think you want to ask your future spouse WHY it's so important for him to have a Catholic wedding. Maybe you actually have different understandings or values in certain areas and you are running on assumptions. For example, what if he wants to go to Church as a family and teach your children about Catholicism? Would you be offended? What if he wants to become a practicing Catholic, would you find that uncomfortable? I was an atheist and converted to Catholicism so I am very aware of how most secular people have very little understanding of the Church and somehow want it to reflect their own demands and values. I obviously love the Church and the Catholic spirituality and community. I married a Catholic and we raised our kids Catholic but we were on the same page. I just think you shouldn't walk into this blindly (which I don't think a Priest would let you anyway, that's what marriage prep is for) when you are making a RELIGIOUS commitment to an ancient 2,000 year old Christian tradition with a billion followers that isn't going to change it's fundamental dogmas and teachings. You can't be offended by Catholicism if you are the one asking for the blessing of the Church and to partake in one of it's most sacred rituals.

I would get you OH to ask the priest af his school, the one he wants to have marry you.

Given that your marriage was all but an annulment then there is at least a case to make for being allowed to marry in the church.

I know Boris Johnson did it but I really didn't think that civil marriages could be disregarded.

If I were you H2B I'd show my face at mass a bit more and offer to be a reader or catechist. It will help his career as well as look favourable for getting married.

There's a useful book that they give non-catholics marrying a Catholic to read. I will find it an send you details. It's quite a light read and is like Catholicism for dummies.

Our marriage preparation was all about finding out were we on the same page about stuff.

How many kids did we want?

What were our expectations of the marriage?

Did he expect me to be a SAHM or go out to work?

Did I expect him to fund everything or did I want to go out to work myself?

What if we couldn't have sex for whatever reason?

What is important to me and what is important to him?

How do we communicate as a couple?

If there were any differences in our answers e.g if id wanted 10 kids and to be a SAHM, when he only wanted 2 and expected me to work FT, then it threw up an issue that needed discussing before marriage.

Book is called How to survive being married to a Catholic and is an entertaining read. If you show up to talk to the priest showing willingness to learn he is more likely to look favourably on you.

I think that as it was in a registry office, it's not valid in the eyes of the church. So it may be allowed. But not 100% sure. I think infidelity may be grounds for an annulment in the RC church at least, if not legally.

My understanding is that infidelity is only grounds for an annulment if the affair was ongoing at the time the marriage was entered into.

If the affair started after the marriage, it's not grounds for annulment in and of itself.

The affair started before marriage. 8 weeks before to be precise.

You misunderstand. Your first marriage won't be a concern in the eyes of the church because it was only a registry office wedding.

I was saying that the RC Church won't give an annulment to people in a Catholic marriage just because one of them cheated after the marriage.

My understanding is they will only consider annulment if one party was already "cheating" at the time of the Catholic ceremony.

Ah, I see.

I have a connected question. My CofE sister's first marriage was civil ceremony. She divorced and married my catholic brother in law also in a civil ceremony. My brother in law started going to church again so my sister joined him and became an active member, helping out with Sunday school and events. She obviously never took the Eucharist so the priest suggested she might want to convert, so she could fully partake. She started the process then he learned she was divorced so refused to continue. He routinely administered the Eucharist to catholic divorcees.

If marriages in civil ceremonies aren't recognised as marriage, why did he refuse? I realise it might have been his own bias but wondered if he erred in canon law?

Upshot is the church community lost both of them as a result.

It's why Boris Johnson could get married in a Catholic cathedral even though he's been divorced twice - he's baptised Catholic, and so neither his C of E nor his civil, registry office marriages counted.

I wouldn't be sure on why.

How long ago did this happen?

If her previous civil marriage had ever been blessed in either the CofE or RC Church, I think that could've been a reason.

Or alternatively, maybe he offered them the chance to get their civil marriage blessed and they refused?

But that's just guesswork and I wouldn't be sure why.

And to the poster saying about Boris Johnson...if you're married in the CofE church, my understanding was that that DOES count as a marriage in the eyes of the RC Church.

I would encourage you to arrange a meeting with the local parish priest. Ours is so welcoming and would respectfully look at your circumstances without judging you.

You may be able to have a marriage in the church as your previous marriage wasn't a Catholic one. If it is not possible, you may be able to have a Catholic blessing at church instead.

A lot of priests are more flexible than in the past. When I got confirmed as an adult, you are supposed to have a practised/confirmed adult as your sponsor. Our priests' response was 'I don't ask too many questions!' My son's confirmation name isn't a Saint either, but someone on their way to sainthood (Blessed Carlos). He's definitely more relaxed and is focused on why you would want a Catholic marriage and that you are doing that for the right reasons.

Good luck, I wish you well.

That's if the first marriage was an RC marriage, a register office marriage doesn't count so technically (in RC doctrine) the OP has never married.

OP a couple of things to look out for, you mention children, if you have an RC marriage you usually have to promise to bring the children up RC. I don't know the standing on children born before the marriage.

Preparation classes are normally for 6 months.

Just in case things don't go to plan with the RC marriage my RC divorced friend got married in a Methodist church. It was important for her to be married in a church but her local priest couldn't / wouldn't do it because of the divorce.

The Methodist minister was of the opinion that if you wanted to be married 'in the sight of God' that was more important than a previous marriage.

You will get so much misinformation on here OP and ultimately it does come down to the priest and what they are happy with. I am Catholic and have worked with priests and volunteer with a lay group that is equivalent. In my experience priests widely vary on what they are happy to bend the rules on.

You can get married in any chapel, it does not have to be local but there may be a higher cost for chapel and priest, if they are outside of your parish. However if your husband has good relationship with the school chapleon/priest he may wave some of this cost.

Your previous marriage was not within the Catholic Church and therefore should not cause much of sticking point at all. As in eyes of the Catholic Church you did not take the sacrament of marriage and therefore not married.

If you are baptised in a Christian religion you can get married in a catholic church but it will not be the full sacrament (eg holy communion won't be given at the ceremony) it will be a blessing but the marriage is still recognised. One of my family members did somehiw receive a full sacrament, it really does come down to the priest sometimes. A family member who is about to get married, his fiancee just converted, did holy communion and confirmation on same day. They did have to attend classes but I don't know the ins and outs of what was involved as was not in Ireland.

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding and I just wanted to say how lucky your husband to be is that you are looking in to ways to help make your wedding day special for him as well.

@Dacadactyl

• And to the poster saying about Boris Johnson...if you're married in the CofE church, my understanding was that that DOES count as a marriage in the eyes of the RC Church.

It would have counted had Boris been baptised Anglican. As it was, he was baptised Catholic, and that means that the only marriage he could enter that would be recognised by the Catholic church is a Catholic marriage, unless he'd got a dispensation - as he has been confirmed in the Anglican church, this seems unlikely (and clearly hadn't happened, or he wouldn't have been able to marry Carrie in Westminster Cathedral).

Two Anglicans are, of course, completely able to have an Anglican marriage viewed by the Catholic church as a sacramentally valid marriage.

Basically, the Catholic church takes a 'once a Catholic, always a Catholic' POV about such things - and you have to play by their rules for them to accept that certain things have happened.

They can if they were never married in the church.

Seen multiple do this over the years

I've confirmed where my baptism certificate is held today. Phew! One less thing to do. They also added this to the email. Does that mean I'm fine to marry as they have no record of marriage in a Catholic church? Or will I still need to do the annulment?

You can't get a catholic annulment as you were never married in the catholic church. You are good to go without an annulment

So confusing 🤣.

You are divorced legally from a marriage that the Catholic church didn't recognise other than as a civil ceremony in the first place, so no. 😁

It really isn't.

You were baptised RC so you are 'counted' as RC.

Once you are baptised RC only RC marriage is counted, you could have had 17 civil marriages and a couple of Niqahs and you would still be counted as unmarried.